SPEAKER_00 0:17

Hi, I'm Maver, and this is Racing with the Village, a podcast where real parents share real stories so we can all feel a little more connected on this wild journey of raising children. In today's episode, I'm joined by Elliot, who shares his journey through fatherhood across two very different chapters in his life. He first became a dad in his twenties, welcoming two daughters before realizing his relationship and parts of himself weren't where he wanted them to be. After divorce, Elliot navigated life as a single dad, dating, rebuilding, and figuring things out along the way. Years later, in his forties, he became a dad again, but this time to two sons, and stepped into family life with a completely new perspective. This is a story about growth, second chances, and what it really means to show up as a parent through every stage of life. Let's listen to his story. Hi, how are you? Hello, May. Good to see you again.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Doing very well.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Doing very well today. Yeah. Gloomy day, but hey. Um, what do you expect?

unknown 1:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

So, um, shall we start with some quick introductions? Who are you?

SPEAKER_03 1:34

Of course. My name's Elliot. I have two older daughters who are 22 and 19. I have two younger sons who are I know I don't look old enough, do I? Uh two younger sons who are nine and seven, and uh obviously we know each other because we used to work together. We did. Uh have stayed friends since. So lovely to be here again with you on a Friday morning.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Indeed, and thank you very much for your time. Of course. All right, let's jump into your story. Sure. And for that, because you've mentioned that you have a 22-year-old daughter, which I can't believe is true. Um, but let's go back to probably when you were in your twenties. Yeah. When you were in that special relationship you were in.

SPEAKER_03 2:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Just before you decided to become a dad or before you decided to have a child with your partner. Do you want to take me back to that?

SPEAKER_03 2:29

Yeah, sure. It's funny because I see now my eldest daughter, and she's very she's in a relationship with someone and has been for three or four years now. And she's a very responsible girl. Um likes to, you know, she's got a job, she's saving for getting a house, she's uh would prefer to stay in with a cup of herbal tea and watch a film as opposed to going out and partying. And I look back and think to myself at that age, and of course, I was the complete polar opposite of that. And I was always partying and always going out and never really thinking about, oh, I better get a house or uh I want to sit at home and watch a film or I better save or I better get a pension, all these things that my daughter talks to me about, and I'm thinking, God, I was never like that. This is fantastic. Of course, as a father, I'm thinking that's fantastic, but I'm thinking that wasn't me. I was actually a bit of a Jat the lad, you know, working, um, had a job, but you know, things seemed to be a lot easier then because it wasn't as hard to get a house. You know, wages were more much more in proportion to renting or getting a home to live with, and and you still had money left over to go out and do things in town. Or and I was living in London, I was living in Fulham at the time in Peckham. So, you know, I was in London, so I wasn't like out in the middle of nowhere where it was cheaper, and yet you still had more money in your pocket. So it was a very different environment. Maybe I was a different person, I definitely was a different person. Uh but I was out partying, um, and all the way through my twenties, quite frankly. I mean, I was playing, working hard, playing lots of sport, but always I was kind of doesn't sound great, but probably prioritizing going out with my friends and being at home with my significant other at the time and doing things. So um it was a different type of time for me. And so being a parent was was it wasn't something I was thinking, no, I don't want to do. I just naturally assumed it would happen one day, but I certainly wasn't actively thinking, right, I better have kids. So the thought of being a parent when I was going through my 20s was quite far away. Quite far away from my it wasn't even in registering in my head that I'm gonna have kids. And then until of course um I got married and we were gonna get married, and then we talked about it properly then before we got married, and I said, Yeah, I definitely would want to have kids. And then I was thinking, oh my god, I'm gonna have kids. Like my lifestyle is not like how's that how's that not? I wasn't thinking even then I wasn't thinking, Oh, I better change my lifestyle to accommodate having children because I need to be different. It was how are the kids going to work in my lifestyle? So and I think that is how a lot of people feel before they have children, unless you're naturally like, I want to have kids, I want to have kids, I want to have kids. So it was very much like that. I wasn't at the time, I wouldn't if you looked at me now, and most people I'd like to think think I'm a pretty committed father and have been, um back then you wouldn't have thought that at all. You would not have thought that. I was a totally different person, and I wouldn't recognize myself in terms of how I was thinking. So it was quite interesting when you think about the context of leading up to becoming a father for the first time. I remember when my wife, first wife was pregnant, I actually went to our downstairs toilet in our house and rang one of my best friends that I went to school with and went, Oh my god, she's pregnant. I'm gonna be a dad, what the hell am I gonna do? I remember having that conversation. I remember that. That's how alien the whole concept was to me. So it's very, very different. Um, and a bit scary. You know, it wasn't something I was initially embracing, uh, to be honest with you. I wasn't initially embracing it, I was a bit worried about it, like thinking, what am I gonna do? How's this gonna change my life? What do I need to do? All these sort of questions started popping into my head, and I there were questions I hadn't really considered before. Because when you talk about it and say to your partner, yeah, well, let's go and have kids, you just you don't really think about the detail. Well, I didn't anyway. Um not then. You just get on with it. Like you know, as a parent, there's no manual to being a kid. You know, you can read all the books in the world, but your child and your experience is very unique always. So Yeah, the context was made that I was certainly uh not geared up mentally or in terms of my lifestyle to go straight into fatherhood.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Do you have any role models to look up to at the time that sort of you know came to mind and you were thinking, do you know what I'd like to be like my own dad, I'd like to be like my uncle, my coach, my whoever. Did you did you have any of those?

SPEAKER_03 7:31

No, I don't think specifically, but that's not to say I had a bad childhood, because I didn't. Um, you know, I did have a good childhood, but it I predominantly when I think about when I think about my childhood, I think Dad played a lot of sports with us and mum did the stuff at home, even though mum was working part-time at the time. Um dad was working hard, and then the evenings he was playing lots of sport, and so he was off down his sports clubs most days of the week, and then on the weekends he would spend time with us and play sports and games and things like that. So that's when I really spent time with my dad. It wasn't really like during the week. I don't remember him being there a lot during the week because he was doing things. Um, and I guess that's kind of how I was living my life in a way, without even thinking about it. I was living my life that way. I was working hard and playing lots of sports in the evening. I mean, he wasn't so much going out with his pals, you know, having to n nights out partying, but I was doing that as well. So I didn't really have a role model as such, but that's not to say I was having a I'd had a bad experience, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

No, no, absolutely. No, I was just wondering okay, so your wife at the time is pregnant. First reaction is a bit of like, oh my god, what's happening? Do you remember the birth or can you go back to this date?

SPEAKER_03 8:51

Oh yeah, I can remember the birth. My first daughter in particular, it was quite a tricky birth. By the way, you know, between the nine months of pregnancy, by the time the baby was there, I was ready. Like I'd geared up, I was like, I'm gonna do this. Like it wasn't like I've made a big mistake at all. It was never that. It was, well I'm I won't have kids. So just gotta have kids.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

And by the way, didn't ask but how old were you um when your first daughter was?

SPEAKER_03 9:23

29. So I wasn't a baby, but for me I probably was a bit of a baby, um, you know, compared to how I grew up quite a lot in the uh oncoming years. Um so I yeah, I was ready for it and I was looking forward to it. You know, so I had transitioned quite a lot in those nine months mentally, and I was ready to do it and I was excited about it. Um I didn't know if we were gonna have boy or girl. So big surprise. Didn't really care. All four of my children, we didn't find out the sex of the child. Oh so um uh and that was deliberate. I quite like the idea of a surprise. Um everyone was like, oh, when I had a girl, oh you must be so disappointed because they always thought I was such a like, you know, alpha testosterone-fueled male. And I was like, well no, I actually quite quite liked the idea of having a girl when when she came along, but the birth was quite traumatic. I do remember it was quite a funny story in the beginning, is that um when my um first wife she was going through her dilation and her waters broke, and so we went to the hospital, and they measured the you know, dilation and they said, Oh, you're you know, you're not ready yet, you need to go back, have you know, have a lie down, have a bath, have a bite to eat, and then it will sort of take its course. And I thought they were talking that's what I should do, so that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

That's what I did. It sounds like a good idea.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

And I'm like, Yeah. So um, so yeah, um, but but that's that is a true story, but quite funny. And then so we came, we went back to the hospital, and the birth was going fine until the baby got caught in the delivery canal, um, and it was they were quite worried about uh the baby losing oxygen to the brain because it was stuck. So they were thinking about they said we can't really do an emergency cesarean there because of the position of where it is, so they didn't know what to do, and then they called in some consultant who was some specialised consultant, some Australian guy who had been delivering babies out in the Australian bush. Seriously, and it was like they were a bit you could see they're a little bit worried about it, and then we were in there for hours. I mean, it was a long labour because of that, and I was all in the delivery room and like in the actual operating theatre as well, because I didn't know what they were gonna do, all dressed up in the smock and everything, looking like something like an episode of ER or something like that. And um this bloke came in, um bloke came in, it was like the doors opened and there was this ray of light came behind, it was like he was like some like this. He came in, um, he looked at the staff there who were doing the job and looked at like they were scum, you know, just like completely disdain, went in with his hands, did like a rotational pelvic movement or something, whipped out baby, um, they had to cut her a bit, whipped out the baby, turned around to the staff with complete contempt, and she said, Stitch her up like that. Looked at me and said, Oh, what I'm mate, it's a girl. Just so let you know, I've got two girls, they'll always be asking you for money. Um and then he walked out again, and that was it. And then I had a baby and a daughter. So that I do remember the birth really, really well, actually. It was quite uh it was an interesting experience. And then yeah, and um but as I said, I couldn't have been more happy that it was a girl. Uh I actually found myself like really, really pleased I had a girl. So it was fun.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Yeah. So babies here after this grand entrance, uh, thanks to the um Australian magician guy.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Um babies here. What are those first few years with your new family of three? So um wife, baby, and you. What what what was it like? Can you remember that?

SPEAKER_03 13:39

Yeah, I do remember. Um my wife didn't get on with breastfeeding that well um for the first few months, so she my daughter got onto the bottle quite quickly, which meant that I was doing a lot of the night stuff, um, which was obviously loads of fun, as you can well attest to. But I actually did something that I ended up doing with all of my children to a greater or lesser degree, because some of them slept better than others, um, and was up with them, singing to them, um, playing music to get them off to sleep, you know. So I did quite a lot of that. I remember with my oldest daughter, the song I used to play quite a lot was Cold Place Fix You. Um, and so that kind of became our little song. Um I remember that, and she used to realise this song was that sorry, that old side. It is an old s unfortunately. It is an old song, and so we were playing that song quite a lot, um, to the point that even when you know we would she would hear it when she was older on the radio, she would know, she would recognise it as the like her song that meant something to her, and still does actually. And so we I did quite a lot of that. So I got I was involved. I mean, my sac my religious going out every Friday night with my friends clearly stopped, and I didn't have a problem with that, and it was like it was like okay, um, and it was really wholesome and fun, and so I was involved a lot. We did the um NCT for the first for my f for my daughter and met some people um like I did for my eldest son, but um didn't do it for the second ones, but did for the first, um, and I just remember enjoying it. Um I it was we don't have to go into this, but it was actually quite interesting because I kind of well yeah, we can talk about it, it's okay. I was starting to change quite a lot as a person and had been getting ready and I suddenly realised that this is brilliant. I love being a dad. What I was worried about, this is brilliant, I'm just gonna do it, it's gonna be good, and threw myself into it. But then I suddenly I was changing a lot as an individual and becoming less of a bit of a Jack the Lad and a bit more grounded in and understanding and being a bit more honest about what I wanted in my life, and actually I realised I was doing a lot of things because probably, you know, I thought that was the picture that I should be painting about me as a person that I would want to do, and I mean primarily in terms of like going out partying, having loads of fun, and then I realised actually, why am I doing that all the time? What do I really want? And unfortunately, what it really meant is that I didn't really have the tightest of relationships with my first wife. She's a lovely woman, we get on really well, we've managed to, since we split up, managed to uh you know maintain a very strong relationship with each other, but also provide that solid base for the children as well. So if ever there was going to be a breakup or a divorce or something like that with kids, I'd like to think we did it in a really good way. But what it made me realise, and you know, and it's a really interesting thing because my girls said to me when they were younger, why did you and mum split up? And I said, Your significant other should be, if I I created it to the solar system, I said your significant because they were well into planets and stuff, and I said, Your significant other should be like the sun. And if they're not the sun and they're one of the outer rim planets, then something's not right. And I just wanted to do other things. It wasn't, it was just I want I had different interests, I wanted to do other things, and you didn't want to spend as much time with her as I should have done. And it made me question a few things because there I was at home wanting to be at home looking after my daughter, thinking uh something's not quite right here because I'm loving this bit, but I still want to, you know, I was playing lots of sport, playing lots of rugby, playing lots of cricket, playing lots of squash, you know, five-side football. I was finding reasons, I mean I was very fit at the time, but I was finding lots of reasons to not be at home. And I'm thinking that's not right, is it? I mean, I'll be home for the baby, but I should be home for more than that. So it kind of made me the whole experience actually was quite cathartic, um, in a way that it made me think about what I really wanted, and I was kind of like developing into a different type of person. And so when um my second daughter came along, what happened was is we we had uh there was a pregnancy in between, which unfortunately miscarried. And at that point, it was really stressful and obviously terrible for my ex-wife to go through that and for both of us to go through that. But it actually made me question when she said to me, Let's try straight away, let's go and let's try straight away for another one, something in me was I don't want to do this. And I was thinking, why don't I want to do it? Because I definitely want to have another baby. I knew I wanted another child. Um, but then it made me realise I didn't really want to have another child with her retrospectively if I look back now. But we did, we got pregnant and again and our second daughter came along. Um, but I realised now that that feeling was the home environment isn't quite right. So that was quite an interesting and tricky dynamic when you realised that this is where I want to be in terms of being a dad, this is brilliant, and having another daughter. I was like, oh, two girls. Great. This is probably some kind of payback for me now for my Jack and Ad life, you know. Um, and yeah, it made me examine a lot of things. It made me grow up, it made me examine a lot of things. I wanted to grow up, I wanted to change and be that person. It wasn't like a forced thing, it was quite, as I said, embryonic and or cathartic in terms of how it happened. Um, and it softened me a lot because I think I was quite selfish, I think I was quite egocentric, I was as I said, I was thinking I was putting on this veneer of person of who I really thought I should be, as opposed to who I wanted to be. Um, and so having little girls in particular had to make this man who was running at a million miles an hour doing everything to slow down and go, no, that's not quite how it works, particularly with little girls, you know. So I had to soften, I had to be more calm and thoughtful, and that was quite difficult in the early stages, quite quite honestly, because I was going through these emotions of I don't want to be here in this environment because the relationship isn't quite right with my partner, but I do want to be here with the kids, and that I would imagine I think um to be quite honest with you because it forced me to examine even more the kind of person I had to be, because when I did split from my partner and the girls were quite young, um I had the I had a lot of feelings of guilt about that. Even though I knew it was the right thing to do and that I should I you know this relationship we'd be here for the wrong reasons, I felt guilty about it because I wasn't with them every single day, and it was really difficult because I wanted to be with them every day. And I wasn't. So it was hard. It was hard, it was a it was a tough time mentally for me, I remember. Um and but there was this overwhelming feeling of you have to be there for the girls.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

Yeah, how do you make that um how do you make that decision um with exactly the context that you said, thinking I want to be there for them? How am I going to be there for them if I'm not living with them, if I'm not with them a hundred percent of the time, if I'm not there when they wake up, when they go to bed? How how do you reconcile all of that in your mind? And still make the decision that at the end of the day was probably the right decision for everyone involved.

SPEAKER_03 22:09

Well, it was first of all, it was really difficult. It wasn't something that I took lightly. It was something, you know, we tried hard to, we knew the relationship wasn't working. Um we tried hard to do things about that to make it better, but it just really wasn't right.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

And I I found it difficult because I did want to be there so much for them.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

I mean, it was quite heartbreaking. I remember when we did spill it up, and we had also bought a home that was quite new, which was probably again a poor decision and shouldn't have happened, but you know, life is life. And you know, I was remembered leaving the ho that home and in the early days of when that decision was made, and it was really, really heartbreaking. I was staying with a friend, I didn't really have a a a base at the time where I could bring the girls that was my own for a few months, so that was really hard. So I was kind of still going to the house while we were going through that split, which was difficult because I was splitting for my ex-wife, and seeing the girls and then leaving them when they were going to bed, and that was heartbreaking. But I also was because I had been going through this change as a person, I knew that it was the right thing. I was very much, much more in tune with being honest with myself at that point. So even though at that point I was 32, still relatively young, I'd in three or four years I'd done a lot of growing up and I realised that things had to be different. Um and that I should be less yeah, lying to myself less, really, you know. I think everyone can learn from that a little bit, and being very honest about what who I am and what I wanted in my life. And it was in retrospect, it was a hard decision, but I know it was the right decision. I don't regret the decision because as it I've maintained a strong relationship with my daughters, you know, and a good relationship with my ex-wife. And actually my daughters both say we can't even imagine you and mum being together because you're so different. So they even can see that now as adults, that we are such polar, they say opposites attract, but when your interests are very different and you're not growing together, you know, and we'd been together a while, me and my ex-wife. So, you know, it's not like we'd just been dating for like two, three years and decided to had kids, it'd been longer than that. So we just weren't growing together in the right way. And and even my daughters can see that now. You know, now they're young adults, you know, they can see that and they so we can talk about it openly. So um it was tough, but being the overriding feeling of being a parent and a father to those girls got me through that, you know, made me think I'm gonna do this right. And when I did set up on my own two feet and get my own place a few months later, um, you know, I my ex-wife knew how much the girls meant to me. And because there was no real real manace between us, and we kind of went our separate ways in that respect, she wanted me to be as active a parent as possible. So it really was like a 50-50 split, as as 50-50 as you can get, probably maybe sometimes me more some weeks and her some other weeks. So and it was very flexible. You know, I hear stories now about, you know, some of my friends who have been through divorces and breakup who have to kind of like who have such inflexibility in terms of the oh, I can't do that weekend, or I'm planning to do these things on those days. So can you have them know that's your problem? Go and sort out some alternatives. It was never like that. We always were very flexible with one another, and I thank her for that, and I hope she would be the same. Because actually, the interesting thing is and um is that it then went into a different phase of my life in the sense that I was now a single dad looking after two girls. Gotta tell you, not doing an advert for divorce on this channel.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

What's coming? I feel like I know what's coming.

SPEAKER_03 26:28

Having time to yourself, and then as you know, when you're a parent and you get no time to yourself, particularly when the kids are young and desperately need your help, obviously, having time to yourself and a bit of time off to have you time is brilliant. So there's a lot to be said about that. Not to get divorced, not advertising that, but there's a lot to be said when you can recharge, you can be you, you can do your own thing, you can have a bit of mental time and space. Um, and that really helped me, I think, because it gave me a chance to breathe. And I wasn't going out and partying and doing stuff, I was doing my own thing. I was working, I was still playing sport, I was doing all those things, you know, still seeing my friends obviously and doing stuff, but not like I was. Um but um made a it made me it gave me breathing room mentally and physically to be able to invest the right time and effort into my children when I had them, and when they were there, that I was you know, I I think, and we can talk about that, the difference between being an older parent and a younger person parent. Mentally I was still a bit younger, so not as mentally present as maybe I am when I'm older, but I certainly valued the fact that I had time to myself, and then you could invest the time that you should do into your children. So whilst I did feel bad about the fact that I didn't have them every single day, it made me ready and on it for when they were there. So it was quite an interesting period of time in that respect. And I had lots of fun. I remember lots of fun when the girls were really young. We had lots of fun times. I took away on holiday a couple of times by myself to Mallorca and Tenerife. We had lots of fun. Um and I was, yeah, it was great. And I'd loved it. I actually loved it. Wasn't in another relationship. I obviously started dating um my wife now. When the girls were younger, but uh and that was an interesting dynamic then, but um uh but we had lots of fun doing stuff the three of us, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

So what's dating life like when you're a single parent to two young children?

SPEAKER_03 28:41

Well it's funny because you go on these dating profiles. Uh I did that, I did a couple of dating profiles which were funny. There was one where uh you get your one of your friends to write your profile for you.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

It's a it was a different one back then, I don't know if it's still going, but it's um it's one where you You've got to really trust that friend. Yeah, so I thought, ooh. I've so I got one of my female friends to write it. Of course. I thought, yeah, because I'm gonna write this like a man. If I get my female friend to write what she thinks about me as a person, then that might be good. And it was. But well, the funny thing about dating is that um, particularly when you're on dating profiles, is that certainly I thought it was just a male thing, and it's quite a funny story I'm about to tell you, is that I thought it was a male thing, but um men don't necessarily look at the words on the profile. Let's just put it like that. Shocking.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

Shocking shocking revelation. I did not expect that.

SPEAKER_03 29:48

So uh but because actually I did have the girls, I was probably looking at the words a bit more to try and find out, well, you know, just indiscriminately dating people all the time isn't necessarily what I need to do. So I might try and find out if I actually got anything in common with these people that I'm gonna go and see. Um so anyway, I remember one particular time I met up with a girl, and I say girl because I was now in my mid-thirties, and this girl was significantly younger than me, so probably mid to late 20s. Um, so at least five to ten years younger. And we met in a bar, and she clearly hadn't read my profile at all, to to the point I'm making, but in the inverse, that she was a woman who hadn't read the profile. And we started chatting, and I started talking about one of my daughters. She went, Oh, you've got a child? And I went, Yeah, I've got two children. And didn't you read the profile? And you could see her face white. I thought, oh god. Um, this is the first time I've met her, and um, she said, Oh no, I hadn't read the profile because I thought you looked nice. And I was like, okay. Um, and then I said, Well, you can go if you want, and she went, No, let's just stay. And we had a few drinks and a really nice evening, but we never saw each other again. But um, it was nice. And um, but so dating the only people, the only person people uh the only woman that my children ever met that I dated was my current wife. Because for me it was they were sacrosanct, you know, and they they sh as they should be. The relationship with your kids is very different, as you know, to the relationship with your partner. It's just it's just different, it's not better or worse, it's just different. And but you're definitely in a you know, I do think there is an element of without even when your kids become adults, there is an element of I need to protect that person. And you as much as you love your partner and you want to protect them and back them up and be there for them, there is still an element of thinking, well they're an adult too, and they can stand on their own two grounds to two feet and stand their ground. That's just natural. So I wasn't going to introduce the girls to anybody until I was sure, and the only person I was really sure about was the person I ended up ended up with. So that's just the way it worked out. So dating was having being a single dad who had effectively half the week to do things, and the way I did it is I'd have two weeks on, two days on, two days off, five days on, five days off. So I had plenty of time to go on dates, and if they didn't work out, they didn't need to meet them. So it wasn't like i I could make it work until I had to introduce somebody to the relationship. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

Yeah. Very fair. So you said that your now wife is the only woman that you've introduced to the girls. What was it like? How how did that come together?

SPEAKER_03 33:14

Yeah, I was nervous about it.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

Um how old were the girls at that point? Oh they were young.

SPEAKER_03 33:25

Like gonna say like like very young, like three or four and six. So maybe even a bit younger. So a bit younger than that, maybe actually like two and five or something like that. So young. Um and I was a bit nervous about it, but I was in a much better place, you know, mentally and you know, in that respect. Um I think I got them to speak to her on the phone first and say hello, and this was a friend of mine, and that was okay. And also they they were young, do you know? So it was easier. I see people now, very good friends of mine, who are going through situations where they're they're going into relations new relationships after getting divorced with older children, and it's harder because that resistance and that break of equilibrium is for the child is harder to understand once they're older, as which is obvious. So, you know, I do sometimes ask myself, would it have been as easy if the girls were older when they met my second wife? I don't know. I don't know if it would have been harder or easy, like might have been harder. But because they were young and she came in and thought, well, they're little girls and I can have fun with them, you know, and dress them up in little princess dresses or, you know, bind little head scrunches and headbands and do loom bracelets with them and things like that, you know, very easy for her to do. Um uh it was okay. It w it was quite seamless in that respect, actually, to be honest with you. And my my now wife was never, you know, we weren't married at that point. She wasn't coming in trying to be another mum. She was getting to the grips of the fact that I'm dating a bloke who's got two kids, let alone I want to be another mum to them, and she was miles away from being a mother for herself. So there was never that. So it wasn't a real threat for the girls to or confusion, I think, that somebody was trying to come in and be another parent. There was never that going on. Um because they had a parent and I had a good relationship with that parent. So, you know, maybe in other relationships people come in and there isn't that stability in in that respect, and maybe they feel forced to assume that sort of role, but there wasn't any of that. So I think it was quite seamless at that age, actually. I've got to be honest. Also, it did help that um my current wife was living overseas at the time when we started dating, so they didn't see her a lot. They saw her periodically, and it wasn't like she was a permanent fixture in their life there and then every single day. So it was more of a gradual introduction for them to get used to, um, which I think probably helps as well.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:34

Yeah.

unknown 36:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

And so for you, what was it like getting into this new relationship and then eventually progressing to the point that you're thinking about marriage, but the second time around?

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:53

Um I'm thinking because it was although I said it was for the girls, quite uh an easy transition because they were young. Easy in the sense they were young, it was another female who could do nice things with them, they didn't see her all the time. Um it wasn't that as easy for her. So by her I mean my current wife, because as it got nearer to the fact that, well, I'm gonna be with this guy. The girls are older now. I'm gonna have to move to the United Kingdom. So I've got to make all these sacrifices and do all this stuff, and I'm trying to back to what I said before, which is why I said it, I'm now coming into an environment where this pre-existing threesome relationship exists. How do I fit into that? This is before kids, her own children came along, our children, the boys came along. So that was difficult for her. She was giving up her single lifestyle in the States, going away from her family and her friends, moving to a brand new country, to a bloke who's got two kids, who has a really tight relationship with his two kids, like to the point that he was never going to move to the States. He was always going to stay there. So, which she wanted, she was said, I don't want to be with a guy who would not be want to be with his children. So it was still really difficult for her for that transition. So it actually was a bit of a struggle in that respect because she was trying to find her way into what her role was. And I think that's always been a bit of a struggle for her, actually, to understand what her role really was, even though there was a mum there. You know, I don't have don't want to be another mum, but I'm your stepmum, what am I? My friend, no. So I think that's always people and I, of course, would be like the man in the middle trying to fix and please everybody and make sure my daughters were okay and make sure that she was okay. So that put effort and stress and a little bit of worry into the mix as well. So it wasn't simple because I knew I wanted to be with her. I knew she was good and caring with my children, and I mean, knew my children responded well to that. So on the face of it, that's I mean, you know, compared to a lot of blended families, that's a good place to be. But it wasn't as simple, and it never is. And I think there's a lot to be said, and maybe if you do speak to my wife about her experience about it, when you do, she'll probably go into a lot more detail about that because I think I don't really understand it because I'm not her, but I know it was there, and I still see it sometimes now. You know, I still see it sometimes now that she knows that there's always going to be that even though she's got kids of her own with me, she knows there's always gonna be that bond with me and the girls, and that's hard when you're not part of that. I think it's easier when you get older and you've got your own children and you've trust one another and you know it's okay, but it's still not simple. So getting to the point of being married again, I knew I wanted to marry her. Always knew that. Um and I knew that would probably come with more kids, which is probably where you want to go in a minute. But um and I was ready to have more children because I loved her and I loved being a dad. So that was an easy decision as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Yeah. So you can read my mind.

SPEAKER_03 40:44

You knew you too well.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

You know me too well. So indeed, after um that wedding, when do you start having that conversation about growing the family? And is that growing the family? And also I'm I'm not sure about how to phrase it, but how do you position yourself or how do you feel within yourself with that thinking that you're going to have m more children? But some of them you will see 50% of your time, your daughters. But the new ones that will come will live with you full time. How do you reconcile reconcile them?

SPEAKER_03 41:32

Yeah, a few questions. So the first, I mean, we talked about it before we got married, you know, about having kids. So she was very much, I'm here, moved to the UK, I'm here now. I need to know that you, you know, be honest with me, is it gonna be okay? So we'd already had that conversation. I said, yep, definitely. Not a problem. Because I knew ordinarily, if I'd never met anybody else, I wouldn't have started another family. Wouldn't it wasn't I wasn't walking around thinking, God, two kids is not enough for me. A lot of people might want one to, like naturally, but I was thinking, oh, I'm quite happy with my life with my daughters. But when I got together with my wife, I knew that children would be a part of that, and because I loved her so much, I wanted to have kids with her. It was natural, so that was all good. That was all talked about. Um, in terms of the reconciliation of having children there all the time, I just knew it that was the case. I didn't really even think about it. You know, it my girls were getting older, you know, they was they were actually starting to, by the time the boys came along, to be honest, they weren't certainly my older daughter was coming they were coming still as often, but I knew it would change because school, friends, part-time jobs, you know, after school stuff, you know, just stuff that they would it was a bit nearer to where their mum lived as opposed to where I lived. If we were in the same vicinity, um maybe that would have been different. But I knew that they were gonna be a little bit less there anyway. But, you know, for the longest time, the longest time I would see them still all the time. So and it was good because the girls, the girls on the whole were excited to have baby a baby brother and baby brothers, and even now we've just all the six of us been away for over New Year to get on a little break, and you know, it was so much fun seeing the kids interact, like seeing the older sisters with their younger brothers, and it was lovely, you know, they really loved it. I do remember my older daughter uh before my our eldest son came along, said to me and ca and my wife in the kitchen, um, I don't want this to happen. I don't want this to happen, I don't want no And she you could tell it was all coming from a fear of loss of a relationship with me. You could tell that that was worrying her. And she was, so let's think, 13 years old. So old enough to know her mind, not a baby. Um, and she was clear, she said, I don't want it to happen, I don't want you to have it. Well, it was a bit like a bit too late for that. Um, you know, it was kind of like that ship had sailed, but um and we had to very delicately but firmly tell her, look, it's happening, and you're gonna have to be okay with it in your own time because and just trust the fact that we're still gonna love you and be there for you. I mean, that's the one thing I would say is a theme, you know. I know we've talked about being a parent a a lot, and I think the one theme I would say that is the similarity between children, no matter what age, no matter what environment, whether it's a blended family or whether it's parents who have split up. Children, like people just want to be cared for and loved. They want to feel security and love, they want to know that you've got their back. That's all. That's all they need. That is the basic element of what they need: love and care and feeling of protection and a safe environment for them to be themselves. I think people need that, but children definitely need that, particularly young children. So the when I think about my daughters when they were growing up, I think about them now, I think about my sons, they all need that. They no matter how far much they act out, they need to be in an environment where they can be themselves, where they can act, play at, they can act out, they can have a tantrum, they can be annoyed, but knowing that they can do that because you'll still love them and it's okay. And that's all they need. That's it. Don't need gifts, don't need, you know, money. That's all nice, but that is the fundamental. So I think I remember that very clearly with my oldest daughter, and she I could just we knew that she was just scared. So that was pretty much the only wobble we had before you know our eldest son came along. Yeah. And then we transitioned into it, and that was it. And then I was thinking, oh my god, I'm here all the time. I'm not gonna break. This is madness. I'm older, I've got to get up in the middle of the night, I'm getting tired, I'm not as young as I used to be. So uh yeah, and having, you know, transitioning into the you know, maybe what you'd want to talk about the difference between having boys and having girls is that I think fate was definitely paying me back for being a Jack the Lad party boy when I was younger because everything makes sense to have girls when you're older and boys when you're younger. Because boys are tell me about that. Run, testosterone charged mainly, you know, a lot of them run around like lunatics, don't stop, don't have any attention span, you know, a bit like men, because they're grown to men who are the same. So, um and that's when that's a young man's game, believe me. Because I remember with my daughters, I'd be like, Oh, do you want to do some colouring? Yeah, go and why don't we get some colouring or some crafts and sit you down? There you go. And 45 minutes later they'd be doing it still, and I would have had a cup of coffee, I would have read the paper, because there still were newspapers back then, believe it or not. So uh I read Sunday paper, and they would still be doing their colouring, and that was lovely. Not now. Not now. If I put the paper down, the paper would have been turned into a weapon, the pens would have been used as lightsabers, um, it would it would not be the same. So, and you know, it's football, it's running around, which is lovely, but it's something you would want to do in your late 20s and early 30s, and you'd want the let's sit down and let you do some colouring while I have a cup of coffee in your mid to late 40s and early 50s. So there is certainly a difference between raising boys and raising girls, and it should have been the other way around, but as I said, it's fate twist playing a trick on me to have to do it, you know. As I say to people, I don't know if having two boys is keeping me young or killing me slowly. So I'm not quite sure that we'll figure it out. We'll work it out in the end. So uh it's it's definitely different. It's definitely different. But the the one thing that and I know it's something you definitely probably want to talk about, is that having children as an adult or sorry, an adult, having children as an older person There was an interesting interesting uh Yeah, well, maybe yeah, is mate is that I'm more present even when even though I was more I was growing into myself as a human being when I had my girls. Having done that growing and now knowing entirely who I am and what my I'm good at and what I'm not so good at, is that when parenthood came around the second time around, I knew what it was gonna be like. I'd forgotten what it was gonna be like because there was a 10-year gap, but I knew what it was gonna be like, and I knew I could be a lot more calm and present. I know that helped my wife because she was like, oh my god, what the hell? What's going on? I'm like, it's okay. And I and certainly everything I do with the boys, I'm even now I'm more present than I ever was in my late 20s and ever thirties, early 30s, less energy, but more mental presence. And I know how to deal with situations a lot more and a lot easier. Like I look at if I had not that it was different with girls. Young girls are they're easier to manage mentally until they become teenagers, so that's a bit harder, I think, in my experience. I'm sure a lot of people would agree listening to this. Um boys are not mentally hard to deal with. They're pretty simple creatures, and you know, I didn't deal with any. I suppose when the girls were growing up and I got any stress or difficulty to deal with, I probably didn't deal with it as well as I would do now. And now I look at my eldest son when he's being truculent, and I said, I can do this all night. And I was you. I know all the tricks, I was a boy. If you want to go there, it's not gonna end well for you. And we look at each other and there is an understanding. He knows that I know what he's talking about, so it works. So, but I don't think I could have been like that and at the age of 29 or 32, I'd have been shouty and look more annoyed and less patient. So patience, wisdom, you know, that comes obviously, you hope, when you get older. And so being a parent the second time around help definitely makes me more geared for that. You know, if I get annoyed, it's more because I'm tired, not because I haven't got the patience for it. So I'm just old now.

SPEAKER_01 51:17

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_03 51:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:19

Say you were to meet with a young Elliot or a young dad who is in a relationship that they feel like I'm not sure about that one but also have kids. What would you say to them?

SPEAKER_01 51:38

I can share this.

SPEAKER_03 51:42

I've had conversations with people I know who are going through have been through splits not I'll come back to young dad in a minute, but similar sort of age to me over the last few years and I've known them of not to be in the um not putting their kids first let's just put it like that and these are people I've known for a long time and I've said to them this isn't working for me, how you're acting. Because whilst the business between me and their partner is none of my business, I feel none of it's really my business, but they're I know them well and so they're sharing things with me. I've said you're not taking any accountability about what you're going to be like as a parent once the dust has has fallen with young ch youngest children, a bit older than my boys now, not as old as my girls, and that isn't working for me. The best thing I've ever done, and I will say this till the day I die was being a parent. In all the achievements I've had in my life, it is the best thing I've ever done. And it is a gift. As much as like you're up in the middle of the night and your hair's falling out and you're tired, it's a gift. There's nothing like it for me. I genuinely there's nothing like it. And even now, I'd rather, joking aside, die young because I've invested more time with my kids and got knackered than not have done that at all. So looking at things in relationships that aren't working, obviously, if the relationship is can be salvaged, you obviously try and salvage it. At the end of the day, if you can make a relationship work, it's got to be a more solid base for children. It has to be. But if the relationship isn't working, you've tried or you had, just think about the impact on the children. I'd like to think I did that even though it wasn't working for me, even though I was still growing as a person at that point. And now I always think, what's the impact on the kids? What's the impact on the kids? I'm not saying lose yourself in that argument or lose your partner in that argument or lose, you know, your ex-partner in that argument, but you know, with young children in particular, they need that comfort and as I said to you before, that feeling that they're safe. That whatever's happening, they're safe and they can they're loved. And when I see that not happening, it really bothers me. So if I talk to a young Elliot and Yeah, I wouldn't change what I did. I wouldn't change what I did. Are there certain elements in the details that I could have been better at? Yeah, obviously. You know, I'm not, you know, mad enough to think that I'm perfect, but I wouldn't change the the general path of what I took. Just take the care to think that are they are those kids in an environment where they feel safe and loved and can be themselves. And that's if you can do that, I think you're gonna be okay. Because being a parent, whatever age you are, is mental. You don't know what's gonna happen, you don't you know, even with my daughters who are 22 and 19, I'm still dealing with stuff with them that sometimes I think is also related back to when me and their mum split up and their formative years going through that environment, but they know that we've got their back, and that's the main thing. Um without that it's harder. So uh a younger version of me, I'd say just make sure you've got the kids back. And even an older version of me with people I know who are similar sort of age, just if you're going through that situation that's not working, what are you gonna do? How are you gonna be there for the children? Um I'm not saying children should be um you shouldn't lose yourself and your own future and your relationship that you're in at the risk of um, you know, consuming everything into the children. The result of that should be there's nothing, shouldn't be there's nothing left for you or your partner. But I would also say that if you don't have the basics right with your children, it will be harder for a stable household, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 56:25

Very wise words. Very wise words. I like that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 56:29

Yeah, my pleasure. Really enjoyed talking to you about it.

SPEAKER_00 56:32

It was a great conversation. Yeah. I really appreciate you giving me the time. Yeah, I loved it. Loved it. Happy to come back and do it again. Um anytime. Yeah. You're welcome anytime. Yeah, welcome. I'd love to do it. Thanks so much, Elliot. Cheers. I'll speak to you soon. Stay care. Bye. Cheers, May. Thank you so much to Elliot for sharing his journey so openly. From becoming a dad in his twenties to navigating single parenthood and then stepping into Fatherhood again, years later, with a new perspective, Elliot's journey really shows how much we can evolve, both for ourselves and for our children. If this episode resonated with you, or if you know someone who might benefit from hearing it, please do share it. It really helps these stories reach more people who might need them. And as always, if you'd like to share your own story, I'd absolutely love to hear from you. Thanks so much for listening, and I'll see you in the next episode of Raising with the Village. You've been listening to Raising with the Village. If you're enjoying these conversations, don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform, whether that's Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Deezer, so you never miss a new story. New episodes come out every Thursday. You can also find us on Instagram at Raising with the Village or on our website at raisingwith.co.uk, where you'll find more about the project and past episodes. If you have a story to share about parenting, step parenting, or just navigating family life, I'd love to hear from you. You can get in touch through the website or send a message on Instagram. Because every story shared helps another parent feel seen, heard, and supported. Until next time, bye bye.