SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey village, before we dive in, if you haven't already, hit follow on your favourite podcast platform. It takes two seconds, it costs nothing, and it means the world to me. Right. Let's go. Hi, I'm Maiva and this is Raising with the Village, a podcast where real parents share real stories so we can all feel a little more connected on this wild journey of raising children. I have to be honest with you. There are episodes that move you to tears. Episodes that will sit with you for days. Episodes that will make you see the world a little differently. And then there are episodes like this one. Today I'm talking to Liz. Liz mum to four-year-old twins, which, as she will tell you herself, is pretty much her entire personality now. And honestly, we respect it. Liz did not grow up dreaming of motherhood. For a long time, her children were simply not a part of the plan.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

But then she met with her partner. And something shifted. Suddenly, she knew she wanted this.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

What she did not know though was that life would hand it to her twice over at the same time. In this conversation, we talk about what she really thought about having children when she was younger, meeting the person who changed her mind, at the moment she found out she was expecting twins the pregnancy, and what life actually looks like when you bring two tiny humans home at the same time. And we laughed a lot. Like a lot, a lot. I'm going to apologize in advance if the giggles get in the way. But honestly, I'm not even sorry because Liz is one of the funniest people I've ever had the pleasure of sitting down with. She has this incredible ability to find humour in everything. Everything. The chaos, the sleep deprivation, the utterly ridiculous moments that only twin parents will truly understand. And through all of it, there is this beautiful thread running underneath. A woman who once could not picture herself as a mum, who now cannot imagine how she ever thought she did not want this life. This is a feel-good one. So if you just found out you're expecting twins, or if you're in the thick of it, or if you've ever wondered what it's really like, this one is for you.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

It's fun. It's love. It's life. Here is Liz. Hi. Hiya. How are you? I'm good, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 3:29

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Good, great. Shall we start with some introductions?

SPEAKER_03 3:33

Yeah, sure. So my name's Liz and I'm the mother to four-year-old twins. Yeah. That sounds like a little I feel like that that's my life description at the moment. As mother to four-year-old twins.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Liz, mother to four-year-old twins.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

If I'm gonna get like name cards made up and everything.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Oh, cool. So before we jump into the story of the twins, because this is the topic of the day.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Shall we just go back in time to when you were younger, and I don't know how young you want to be at that point, but when you were younger, uh, what was your vision of motherhood? Or did you always want to become a mother at some point?

SPEAKER_03 4:15

So, in all honesty, the whole way through my life, probably till I hit probably about 28 when I met my partner, I never actually wanted kids. I wasn't interested, and um, yeah, it never kind of factored into my life plan. And then I met my partner, and I don't know, something changed, and suddenly, I don't know if you just grow up or you just sort of see the world differently, but then I thought, actually, you know what? I can see this working in, and our relationship was quite like rapid. So it all happened very quickly. Like we met, we bought a house, we fell pregnant, and it all happened very quickly. But up until then, yeah, I'd never fancied children, never kind of wanted them, but it's like a personality change happened, and then suddenly, yeah, it's everything. And then it's hard to explain yourself, I suppose. So you go your whole life not wanting them, and then suddenly you do want them, and then suddenly, like, you can't imagine how you didn't want them. And part of you feel guilty because at one point you're like, I didn't see this, but now I do see this, and this is my world. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's really bizarre because obviously I grew up with my mum and my dad, and like she was a stay-at-home mum, which take my heart off too. But that's what I saw, and I was like, Oh, I don't want that. I want like my own money, I want to do my own thing, and I don't I'm not particularly good at being told what to do, and I'm not particularly good on like a timetable, and I thought it all looked so regimented. But then obviously, yeah, life changes, and did you have any siblings? Yeah, so I've got an older brother, so he's six years older than me. So I think where he's six years older than me, it's kind of like I was an only child because doesn't want to play with a a newborn, and when he's at 10, I'm like four. He wasn't interested. So it was very much like me and my mum, because my dad's at work, working all the out like overtime and stuff. So yeah, I was just kind of like not feeling that, but then yeah, life changed, life happened, and then I think COVID happened, and yeah, suddenly I found myself not with one child but two.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

So on that point. On that, like on that point, actually. Yeah. Are there any twins in your family? Does it run in in the family? No.

SPEAKER_03 6:17

No, I get asked this so much, and there are no twins in my family, no twins in his family. And yeah, they were complete bolt from the blue. Okay. Did not expect that in the slides. I mean, we joked. When I first fell pregnant, I was like, I'd always been quite fit and quite slim. And then I couldn't work out if it was because it was COVID and obviously I hadn't done much exercise. Maybe I'd put on a little bit of winter weight. Or when I then I fell pregnant and I was like, I'm getting a bit chunky, you know. I was like, this is unusual because I was like, I'm under three months, and I was like, we were joking. Just like, oh, it might be twins, it could be triplets, just harmless. I know the horror. So what happens to anyone who does triplets?

SPEAKER_00 6:54

If you have triplets, I need to meet with you.

SPEAKER_03 6:57

Yeah, I need to meet with you because I'm fascinated by that one. But yeah, it's like no, it was never never on a radar. It's obviously since we've had them, and then they told me you're the sort of person that you just basically release two eggs every month. So Ah, so now they've found out that now they know that. So if we were to go in for like a third, there's a strong chance we could. Third and fourth. Yeah. And no. We didn't go from two to four, like we are actually like outnumbered two to one. That's yeah, yeah, no. I value my sanity too much on that one.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Oh, that's interesting. I didn't know that. Yeah. So I think you probably um gave a a little bit of the story here, a little bit of the mystery here, that you released two eggs at once. So um what I don't know if that's the right way to phrase it. What type of twins do you have?

SPEAKER_03 7:49

So they're classed as fraternal. Fraternal. Which means they're two separate eggs. So they're no more similar than siblings. They just happen to lodge at the same time. Yeah. Is how I describe it to people. But that that's it, basically, yeah. They're just you know, if you like you met them, they're not identical. They don't, apart from the fact they've both got blue eyes, they don't particularly look like each other. Personalities are miles like miles apart.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Maybe one thing to maybe one thing to mention is that you have a boy and a girl.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

Yes, I do have a boy and a girl, yeah. So that doesn't you would not introduce them at all.

SPEAKER_03 8:24

No, but you say that when I first had them, I was like, my little girl, she looks like a little girl, my little boy looks like a little boy, you'd be pushing around and people go, Oh, they're twins, what are they? And you'd be like, Oh, it's one boy and one girl. And people go, are they identical? Sure. And you you know when you're like I'm a little bit sarcastic, I'm like, but they can't be identical because they are a boy and a girl. That's different, like that's completely different genetics. And after like the first like 20th time you've been asked this question, you're like, No. It's like I just no. They are a boy and a girl, they're completely different.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Okay, so let's go back to your pregnancy then. So you found pregnant, yeah. Um, and very quickly you started feeling that you were maybe putting on weight a little bit faster than I was getting chunky, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

I can't even like dress that up. I was getting chunky.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

And did you see that before any of the scans or anything? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:25

Yeah. So, yeah, because obviously you have your three-month scan, don't you? So obviously, I fell pregnant and I wanted to wind up Rob because he'd always been like, he was like super excited to be a dad. So I was like, obviously, I did the pregnancy test in the morning, and I think I did what most women do. You do one and then you think, no, we'll do a second one just in case the first one blipped. And then I wrapped that up in like wrapping paper, put it in a little gift bag, and he's come home and he's opened it up. And I won't say exactly what he said, but he was very excited. And then obviously, you book in with your hospital, and I booked, so I'm not from this area originally. I'm from only half hour away, but I booked into a different hospital where I grew up. Yeah. Because I thought that makes more sense to me than where I've just moved to. And we booked that in. And then you think you've got like what, 12 weeks? And it was just like, you'd look in the mirror, you're thinking, I swear I'm not supposed to show yet. Because like all the information I'm reading is you like a first-time mum doesn't start showing until like a lot further down. And I'm like, there's definitely like a bulge. And I'm like, maybe I just, you know, I'm not doing very much, I'm just eating too much. Or and then Rob was like, you were like, or maybe you're just, you know, maybe it's twins, maybe it's triplets, and we'd all have a laugh about it, not say too much. And it's not till yeah, we actually found it out that we're like, oh, that makes a lot more sense why I'm getting so junky so quickly.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

So how do you so did you do any like private um scans, private tests? Or did you wait until the 12 weeks?

SPEAKER_03 10:46

We waited till the 12 weeks, like we just waited for our scan. So we got sent to like it got booked, woke up that morning, thought, oh, we're gonna see what baby looks like today. We're gonna see that's gonna be so amazing. Um you got to a scan, and because it was the tail end of COVID, all partners had to wait outside until like mums had the room and like. Oh, so you did your skin on your own? So I wasn't on my own. They basically they didn't want like all the partners in the waiting room. Oh it was still like the tail end of social distancing. So obviously I'm in the waiting room and they said, once you've got a room, then you can call your partner and he can join you. Okay. And we was like, okay, cool. So obviously I get called, go into the room, and they're like just chatting about like normal stuff, like, oh, how are you finding it so far? Blah, blah, blah. And they're like, right, so it'd be really nice. Like, call your partner now. So I call him. I was like, right, I mean, room, I don't know, I can't remember the number actually. And he can come along and they're like, get on the bed and we'll we'll find where baby is. So he can walk in and see the baby on the screen. I'm like, oh, that'd be a really magical moment. So I lay down and they put the thing on my belly. I was like, I'm not qualified in like this field, but I could see two heads. And you know, when like you're staring at the screen and my brain is trying to rationalise, like, or maybe it's like a mirror, maybe one side is like one side of me and the other, and it's like a different angle on the other. And like I'm trying to rationalise, like, and not accept the obvious truth of the two. And I'm just staring at the screen like, there's two heads. I was like, there's four arms, there's four legs on the screen, like no. And I remember just laying there for 10 minutes, just going, like, what, what? Like, I c I don't think I could actually get a sentence together apart from just a list of profanities just having I'm trying not to swear. I've just like, holy F, what what there's two on the screen? And then like Rob like spalled through the door and he seen my face and he goes, it's not twins, is it? And I'm like, uh uh yes. I was like, there's two, there's two in there. And like I couldn't even tell you what happened for the rest of that like appointment. Because the guy doing like the scan, he was really excited. He's like, Oh my gosh, I've never done twins before, and he's scanning them, he's doing 3D scans, he's doing all this like wizardry. And I'm like, There's two, and that's all I could say to him. I was just like, there is two. What have we done? And I was like, I don't remember ticking a box saying I was up for two. I wanted one, and there are two of them. And then the guy was like, Do you want to know what sex they are? Because apparently they can tell you from that early. Really? Yes, they can tell you, they don't tell you this because they don't want to get it wrong. But he was like, It's quite apparent. So he was just like, it's one boy and one girl, and you're just like sitting there, like, oh my gosh, there's two. And that's all I could say to myself. He's like, there's just two. I was like a broken record for a good hour. I was like, there's two. And then obviously we knew we were pregnant, so we'd planned to like get like the scan printed and we were gonna put it in envelopes, and we're gonna have all the family round and we were gonna do that kind of unveil. But because like, because it was just such a shock, we're like, we can't, we can't hold off like another week. So I was just like, we had to go see like his parents, and we was in the middle of a park, and like we sat down, we're like, Do you want the mad news or like the good news? And his mum's like, Oh, let's have the mad news. I was like, fine, you're gonna be a grandmother to twins. And literally the pitch of scream this woman hit, I think sent the scribbles all running. I've never heard someone squeal so loudly at so high pitched. Oh like so we told them, and they were like over the moon because it was like their biggest dream to be grandparents, and then we went over to my parents, and my parents were very reserved of hmm, okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:15

Twins. And it was these two contrasting reactions.

SPEAKER_03 14:19

I'm just like we just told you we packed up with twins, but yeah, it explained a lot of why I was getting so chunky. Oh, that was just like the tipping of the scale to how big I then got.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Oh dear. I was going to ask a very silly question. I was going to ask, how different is it from a singleton pregnancy? But I guess you wouldn't know.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

No, I've got no benchmark. All I know is like, yeah, because a lot of people ask me, like, um, like how much harder is it? And I'm like, I have no idea. All we did is walk into chaos, just times two. So I can't compare it to one. Like the struggle of being a mum is intense. I think if you've got one, two, or three, but all I know is everything was just like eat, sleep, repeat twice, eat, sleep, repeat twice. Like change, like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Oh, but but before we go into the babies being here, let's come back to the pregnancy. So we are um end of first trimester. Yeah. At this point when this is now in your file that you're having twins, do they start coming coming up with a whole lot of um Well, like monitoring anymore? Yeah. Do yeah. All of a sudden, do you start having a lot more monitoring sessions? Do you have to visit your uh midwives a lot more often? Do you have to go to the hospital a lot more often? Yeah. Do you what what did they say at this point?

SPEAKER_03 15:42

So because they're what's called fraternal twins and they basically although they shared a womb, but they had their own sack, they had their own placentas, so they were like the lowest risk version of twins that you can have. Because one of the risks is if they share a placenta, they're sharing a food source. But the way they described it to me was they basically got separate shelves on the fridge, so they're good. So because I was young and I was fit and I was healthy, they weren't particularly concerned. So it just meant I had one scan a month, as opposed to I think normally you just get like one at 12 weeks, one at 20, one at 36. So I was scanned every month.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:15

And I'd have to go to like a special twin scanning where it's someone who specialized in twin scanning, and then I'd have a phone call with the midwife every two weeks, I think. But it wasn't particularly any more intense than I think a solo pregnancy. I think had I had different cyber twins. Like I said, I've that's all I know. So I just kind of got on with it. But yeah, because it was all COVID, a lot of it was like over the phone for like the midwife stuff, and then I'd go to the hospital for when they wanted to like. I mean, to be honest, you go to a hospital, there was nothing they could do because they're like normally they tape measure you, but that that doesn't work when you've got twins because there's two of them. So they're like, they can't tape measure that. Okay. They try and listen to them, but then they can't tell which one's which. Oh yeah. And then they can't find one of them. And you're like, well, I can tell you where they are because I can feel where they are. Could you? Yes. Oh my gosh, it is the creepiest feeling. So what's I was laying in bed and you had, I think my little girl was on she was on my left and she was facing the wrong way, and the little boy was on the right and he was facing the right way. And I remember rolling over from my right to my left, and you could feel one go dove, and you you could feel the other one go boof, like inside, and you're like, that is the creepiest feeling. And like she would hook her foot under my ribs, and I could flick her toes. Oh, yeah, and then she'd wriggle because she didn't like it. And I was like, well to be honest, I don't like it, so move. But yeah, you could feel them separately moving.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

Yeah, it's it's really peculiar.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

So hang on, when you said that your little girl was the wrong way and your little boy was the right way.

SPEAKER_03 17:47

Or maybe it's the other way around then, because her foot, no, so she was yeah, she was head down, he was the wrong way. Oh, so did he stay head up? No, they did. He did correct and go and they both ended up head down by the end. Okay. But by that point, they they hadn't stopped moving, but you know that the space is tight, so you just feel like the odd and you could see an elbow come across. Yeah. Actually makes me hippie jippy like now.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

So, okay, so you get a regular and consistent follow-up with whether it's the the midwife, your doctors at the at the hospital.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

So every month and every other week with the phone calls. What were they saying during the pregnancy? Did did you have like a target day um for the end of your pregnancy?

SPEAKER_03 18:32

Yeah, so with twins, they like them to be born in a controlled environment. So they like to have them at 37 weeks. So the plan was to induce me at 37 weeks so that they would come controlled rather than I go into actual labour or it turned into an emergency. So that was the plan we went with. And then we attempted natural, which I look back on thinking, I was slightly crazy to even consider this. But yes, they induced me, induction didn't work. And so then we decided we'd go for a um selective cesarean because I was already in hospital and they came by a cesarean in the end. But yeah, they m we made it to 37 plus six, about 38 weeks.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Wow. Yeah. Can I can I just mention here, maybe, because obviously people cannot see you, um, but you're quite tall, and so is your partner.

SPEAKER_03 19:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

So forget me for asking the question this way. How gigantic was your belly at this point? Because you went quite far in your pregnancy.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

I mean, I was huge. Like I couldn't see my feet, and then when I did see my feet, they looked like painted trotters and I cried. I wish I hadn't seen my feet by the end of the pregnancy. No, I was I was big. I mean, I don't know how to describe how big I was, but I could comfortably like eat things off of them like a table.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

No. Like just like the you see on the shows.

SPEAKER_03 19:52

Yeah, like easily like full on they were like my laptop rest, my table. I remember because I was working from home at a time, I had to get a desk razor because I couldn't fit under the table anymore. So work had to buy me a laptop stand so I could actually get under it, like my laptop. Because I've got so big.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

But that's good because you got to keep that.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

I've now got a desk razor at home.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

But yeah, um, my partner always said, From behind, I didn't look pregnant. It was just I was all out front.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

Yeah. But I think because I'm tall, I had more space to carry them. Oh yeah, fair. Whereas if I'd have been smaller, then it would have been like Yeah, they would have been a bit more Yeah. So it's probably lucky I was taller because I could carry them higher then.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

That's very good. Okay, so we get to almost 38 weeks. Yep. Um elective C-section. What happens next?

SPEAKER_03 20:47

Well, at the C-section. Oh my god. So by this point, I've been in hospital for three days because they tried the induction, induction's not worked. Then they said, Oh, you know, this is a consultant at this point. They're like, you know, your birth canal's a bit narrow. Not something you want to hear when you're about to try and push children out. Two. Yeah. So I was like, okay. And they're like, it it might work, it might not work. And I was like, right. So they're like, we we recommend us as areas. So that's how the selective C section came about. So I was like, okay, cool. And it was booked for I think the day after. So we get wheeled down in the morning. This lovely little doctor comes around, she's got a really soft manner, really reassuring. I was like, okay, I feel happy with this. So we go through to the theatre. So he had the epigural, was he laying on the bed? Now you can't move. Then this six foot five guy walks in burly, like a fridge. And he he literally, he was like Arnold Schwarzenegger, he goes like, let's get babies out. And I'm like, so where where's the really gentle doctor? Where's the lady that makes people really say not you pulling your gloves up to your elbows if you are terrifying? And that's the last thing. And then they just pull the sheet up, but the sheet doesn't go just vertical, like they put it over at like a 45 degree angle. I'm like laying under a tent. And then and then I got really terrified. I was like, I can wiggle my toes. Why can't I wiggle my toes? And I just remember like getting really upset, going, babe, I can wiggle my toes. You're about to cut my belly open and I can wiggle my toes. And then an aesthetic, he's like, Don't worry. He's like, Can you move your leg? I was like, no, I can't I can't move my leg and that's fine. I was like, okay, so it's worked. And then yeah. So obviously they Yeah, they the way they pull babies out is not gentle. Honestly, someone had told me once that it's like someone's doing the washing up in your stomach, and that is actually the truth. They're doing the washing up and then they're doing the drying and then they're loading like the dishwasher, and that's all going on, and you're just getting thrown around all over the place. And then I reacted to one of the drugs, which made me apparently go like bright red, and I wanted to vomit. I was like, but then I got really scared because I was like, I can't sit up to be sick, so what am I gonna do? Just like projectile over there. So they had to give me an anti-sickness drug. And I remember kept asking the anaesthetist, I was like, is it over yet? Is it over? And he was, I clearly looking back, he was trying to be nice, but he kept going, oh, just five more minutes, five more minutes. Oh they know an hour, like being thrown around. Yeah, because I slightly hemorrhaged, not like in a like life-threatening way, because obviously it wasn't life-threatening, but I slightly hemorrhaged, so they had to deal with that, and then they couldn't get, I think, my uterus to contract back or something to like get the placentas out. Yeah, I know. Oof. It sounds all horrific when you think back on it, but I'm quite blasé about it now because I was like it was like four years ago. And then what was really cute is obviously the babies come out, you hear them, and they offered them to like my partner, they're like, Do you want to hold them? And he's like, No, no, no. She's like, she's carried them for nine months, she's gonna be the first one to hold them. So I've got this we're gonna I know so I've got this really cute photo of like me like sobbing my eyes out looking like a tomato with these little babies. It's not a photo I show anyone, but it's a really nice one because I'm like, I was the first person to hold them. Because he was also like, No, no, she's done like the donkey work here, she's gonna hold them first.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

Bless him. That's really kind of him. I know, it's really sweet, bless him.

SPEAKER_03 23:56

Oh, that's really sweet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Right, so how big were the babies when they were born?

SPEAKER_03 24:00

They were both six pounds each.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Oh wow, that's solid work.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

Yes, both six pounds each.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Solid work? Yeah. Because that's not that's not common at all for twins, is it?

SPEAKER_03 24:14

No, they're usually born about like the four pound mark. Yeah, exactly. And yeah, I don't know. It all seemed normal to me at the time, but yeah, six pound each, and they were born a minute apart. And what I didn't know is twins are the only births, or like multiple births, that they have their time of birth on their birth certificate. Really? Yeah, because it's like back in the olden days, like inheritance, you have to make sure which one's first. So they've actually got their time of birth on their birth certificate. So who was first? My little girl, obviously. Of course. She's she's a minute older, so it's like 13, 13, and then 13-14. Is that something she brags about? Of course she does. She is the boss. She's just like, I'm I'm older than you. I'm older. Honestly, she's like, I'm older than you. And then like my little boy goes, Yeah, but I'm taller than you. She's so she's the bossiest little person I think I've ever encountered.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

I'm older than you. She's literally.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

I'm not saying you don't even know what older means.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

By minute, but I've seen so much during that minute.

SPEAKER_03 25:07

She's just like, I'm so more worldly than you are. But yeah, so born, yeah, 13, 13, at 13, 14.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Okay, so then what happens? So they I guess they go off with dad, probably.

SPEAKER_03 25:24

No, they literally they put they were given to me straight away, like they were cleaned up. Maybe when you have like multiple births, you've got like, I think it's five people per child, plus you're like all the people for there for me. Like, this room is crowded. But no, they checked them over, they were both breathing fine, good colour, absolutely fine. Because they obviously with twins, they're they're nervous, they're gonna need like neonatal, didn't need anything, didn't need lungs clearing or anything like that. So they just put onto me and we were just wheeled through to recovery. Wow. Yeah. So you're on left. We just we just wheeled, yeah, all wheeled. Rob's walking like next to me and we're just wheeled through. Look at that. Oh, I know that. Yeah, and then I was given a sandwich and I was so happy. So I was just like sandwich?

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Is that because you got twins? Because usually it's a toast.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

No, they got they gave me a chicken sandwich, jelly, cake, tea. Twin treatment. I've got a toast. No, I remember it's a chicken mayonnaise. I've got a dry toast. I love it. We just like the standards are just no, it's not consistent, it's unfair. It's not the same standards. Specialist treatment.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

All right, so you go off with your five-star lunch treatment, whatever, whilst everyone else around is standing on their dry toast. And a cup of tea. Oh no. Am I making that when I maybe I'm making that when I can't remember if there was a cup of tea.

SPEAKER_03 26:53

I definitely got tea and juice and jelly, and I don't even like jelly.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

But I do remember dry toast, that's what it was.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Um that's meme.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

So at that point, uh what what goes through your mind when that's it? Both babies are out. That's it. You have two babies, they are yours.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

What's the realization for you?

SPEAKER_03 27:19

I think we're just sort of in a bit of shock because it's been so intense, like the last like 24 hours, to get to that point where they're now out and they're laid next to you, and it kind of feels a bit surreal, like you're looking at him, you're thinking, you are now out, and you're my responsibility. You'll say, I still can't move because I'm waiting for the upper jewel to wear off. And so, like, Rob's doing like the first nappies and stuff, and you're like, this is just the most bizarre moment. This, like, you're like, there's two of them, and they're so small. And then remember the first night in hospital, because obviously they're born in September, which apparently is like the busiest time of the year to have babies, because apparently everyone plans it to get like the extra school year thing. Oh, okay. Yeah, so like the ward is like chaos. And you wake up in the middle of night because you can hear children crying. You're like, is it my one? Is it not? You're like, I have no idea. Like, there's just children everywhere. And you're looking down at them, and you're like, Oh, it's all cute, I still can't get to you. And then the second night, oh my gosh, it was hellish. It was absolutely hellish because they wouldn't stop crying. And I, up until my my children were born, I'd never held a newborn, and so I actually had no idea what to do with them. So I picked them up, they're not crying, I can't sleep, I'm in pain, and there's no like provision for your partner. So he's just in a chair, he broke the chair because it was he tried to flick it back and it doesn't go back, and that snapped off. And then the midwife came in because you know we go slightly like I was like that bit delirious, like delirious. So the midwife comes in and she like swaddles them and she takes them off for like an hour and you just fall asleep, and then you're like, hold on, where are they? Because you're suddenly like, they're not there. But then you're like, oh no, because the midwife has got them. And you're like, the whole thing is just like my brain is just confused. And I think the second night was one of the worst nights we'd had. And then yeah, the day after that we came out and they sent us home. And then you're just at home looking at them in the car seats in the middle of the room, and you're like, What would you do with them? Like, what do I do with you? Yeah. Because I think everyone's got that photo, haven't they, where that the kid is in the car seat in the middle of the room, and you're literally going, Yeah, so what do I do with you? Do I do I get you out? You're sleeping? Do I leave you alone? Do I I don't know, do we just make a cup of tea and just sit here?

unknown 29:23

That's the question.

SPEAKER_03 29:25

It always seems a bit bizarre. Then obviously you get into it and it like they tell you what they want and what they don't want in their lovely little cries.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

So what about um so I've got a few questions here, but the first question is what about the follow-up from a medical point of view? Do you have to go back to the hospital more often because they are twins? Or was it all fine because they were born really quite at the end of term, almost 38 weeks? Yeah. Very good wait.

SPEAKER_03 29:57

Yeah, so to be honest, um we got discharged, so we had the C section on a Wednesday and we came out on a Friday. And they were like, we'll see, call these numbers if you have any problems. Otherwise, it's the the visiting midwife comes out, I want to say like two weeks later or a week later, I can't quite remember. And then you get one more follow-up visit. But I didn't get any more visits or follow-up than anyone else would. And then you just get your six-weekly check anyway, which I think is standard practice. But yeah, we didn't get any more follow-up than anyone else.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

Do you get offered any I don't know, like support? I'm not quite sure what weight they would um provide that, but I don't know, do you get any?

SPEAKER_03 30:35

I mean, you don't know. It's kind of like obviously you've had a baby, so you get whatever support there is naturally from the NHS. But other than that, you don't get any more because you've had two. I think had they gone neonatal, we would have.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:47

But because they were happy with their weight, they were happy with like their colouring, because they weren't like particularly jaundice or anything, well, they just sent us on our merry way. Yeah, just like there you go, it's two of them. Enjoy.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

And so once you got home, did you first of all, did you were you all set and ready with everything like sort of double um for the twins or Yeah, we'd gone to town on everything.

SPEAKER_03 31:10

I mean, the only thing I hadn't quite realised, and no one had told me, when you buy baby grows, I thought naught to three would be fine, like for the first few months. No one told me that there was such thing as newborn baby grows. So it's only because my mum came around with this pack of newborn baby grows. Because I was they literally like, you were tying up the ankles because they were so big, because it can hold a three-month fold. And I was like, naught to three is actually now what I realise a very big difference to what a newborn is. So that's the only thing I hadn't prepared on. But other than that, we had the cot in our room. They slept in the same Moses basket together for ages. I can't actually remember when they came out of the Moses basket together, but I'd have one upstairs, one downstairs, and I could carry them around like my little sack of potatoes and just move them around. And we had two rockers. I had a twin feeding cushion, which was amazing, because it meant they could both sit there and be secure and I could feed them at the same time. And then obviously we had like 20,000 baby grows, 20,000 bottles. I remember my the the worst job in the world to me was cleaning bottles. I hated it. Especially off like a night feed when they've been up like every three hours. You know, I've got like 12 bottles. That was like I hated it. It was like my biggest bug bit. If anyone would come over and say, Can I do something? I'd like clean the bottles, please. I can't stand it. I hate it so much. And I'd be making like jugs of formula, like not just bottles, I'd make jugs, actual jugs of formula.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

You're like, and here's yours, here's yours.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

Literally, because I was just like, I can't, I can't deal with trying to make it because it made no sense. The way you make formula makes no sense to me. Like you're supposed to pour your boiling water in and then you scoop the formula in. But the steam of the water makes someone a formula stip to the spoon, meaning you don't get the right amount in it, which just blew my brain. So hence why I'd start making jugs of it, and I fell out with the health visitor about this because she was like, No, no, that's not what you're supposed to do. And I'm like, but it works. I was like, I'd I had a jug full of boiling water and I had my formula and I could pour it in so I could get the exact quantities. And then I'd make up my bottles before night time and I'd have a cool bag that I'd take to bed with us with cool packs in it, so I could make sure the temperature of the milk was right, and I'd have this massive cool bag next to me in bed. So I was like, I'm not getting up at three o'clock in the morning going downstairs and making fresh milk. So I had my my milk pre-made in my cool bag and my bottle warmer. We had like a whole conveyor belt going on. Because I was like, sanity.

SPEAKER_00 33:28

Practicality. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:29

I'm liking it. Great. I would have never thought about that. Um It works, it honestly works, and it saves you a hell of a lot of time in the middle of the night.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Well, yeah, because it means that you don't have to lift a room essentially.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

Yeah, you just put it in a bottle warmer, and whilst you're changing a butt, you just it heats up.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

And so Do they sink up or do they not?

SPEAKER_03 33:48

We made them sink up. Yeah. So my little boy was hungrier, so we kind of did the thing you're not supposed to do is you wake a sleeping baby because I was like, if I don't wake her up to feed her, then he's gonna feed, go to sleep, and then half hour later she's gonna wanna wake up. So we did actually wake them up. And during daylight hours is fine because everyone just has one baby each. But in the middle of the night, obviously, I've got the cushion in front of me. I'm holding the bottles, I'm trying desperately to stay awake. And there's a I think there's a few times where you've actually fallen asleep in the position of holding two bottles in front of you. And then my little girl went through this phase of you'd feed her, but you had to keep her upright for half an hour or she'd chuck it all up.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:24

So you put him back, she's now sitting in the cushion, it's three o'clock in the morning, and you're on Amazon Prime buying like stuff you don't need that then gets delivered the next day, and you're like, What have I ordered? In my like not really awake state outside ordering just stuff that you just don't need. Just try to stay awake while she finishes her milk digestion.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

I need a list of all the weird stuff to put out.

SPEAKER_03 34:48

My partner would be like, What is it? I'm like, I don't I don't actually know.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

It just seemed like a good idea at three o'clock in the morning. Is it like a mix of Instagram telling you everything that you don't need? Yeah, it seems extremely important. And then Amazon Prime on the other side being like, buy me, buy me, buy me.

SPEAKER_03 35:05

Yeah, like we could deliver it tomorrow. I'm like, I need it tomorrow. But yeah, I look back and he's like, I don't actually know how we survived because it was intense the first few months. Did you get any help? So both sets of parents retired, so I think like once a week everyone would come over so they could all like help with the feeding during the day, but during the night, it was just yeah, me and my partner were just firming it. He'd stay up till about midnight, but was he had to go to work, and then I try and do the night feeds, and we'd all sleep in till like 10 o'clock, and I could never understand. Like with playgroups, they all start at 10 and we weren't getting out of bed till 10. And I was like, I didn't understand how everyone could be out of the house dressed and somewhere for 10 o'clock in the morning. Because I was like, I don't know how you do it, like I can't I can't get my life together. Like, all I do is live in a dressing gown. So, yeah, for the first few weeks and months, I think that's probably one of the biggest differences. If you've got one child, it looks it looked, it may not have been, but it looked like it was easier to get out of the house. But when there was two, it was an expedition. Like just getting the buggy down the steps to my house. Because obviously, like it's quite a few steps, you bump them down, and then just pushing them. They were heavy and the buggy was heavy. And it just I just couldn't understand how people went out with newborns. Like, it made no sense to me. I was like, 'Cause what happens is like I need to feed one, I have to feed both of them. They I need a butt change. I was like, I can't just leave one in the pram whilst I take that one to change it. The buggy doesn't fit in the thing. So for the first few months, I think if I went anywhere, unless it was like to my parents' house, my in law's house, I'd have to have someone with me because I was like, I'm outnumbered. And they terrify me because they're small.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:37

I think that was, yeah, that was the hardest thing. And then after a while you get used to it and then you start going places. But yeah, playgroup, I don't think I went to playgroup until they were about a year old. Because I could I just couldn't work out how to get there. I just don't know how to get there at 10 o'clock in the morning when I'd done like the last feed at seven, not last feed, but last nighttime feed I classed at as at seven, and then getting like an extra three hours sleep because I was like, I need that to function.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

If you could use, say a few words, I'm not gonna say one or five or whatever, but if you could use a few words to describe that first year, what would you say?

SPEAKER_03 37:12

I think it's just chaos. Like you just you learn to thrive in chaos, and chaos just becomes a new normal. And eventually chaos I think you just learn how to juggle chaos in the end. But I think that's all new parents, isn't it? You just you learn how to juggle your chaos. Yeah, I guess. Does there any way you can describe it? Because it's every like but what I found really bittersweet about being like a twin parent is every first is also every last. Because obviously I don't plan to have any more children, like I'm not crazy. I don't want to jump to four. Oh gosh, no.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

Or five, I don't know. If you can release two eggs, maybe you can release three eggs.

SPEAKER_03 37:49

That is a terrifying thought. But it's like every time like you wean for the first time or they take their first steps, and you're like, and then the other one does it, you're like, oh yes, it's amazing. He's like, but it's also the last the last time anyone's gonna take their first step. So it's a it's a real bittersweet thing during that first year, because it's all the first, but also all the first time, the last time that first time will happen, which is really bizarre.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

Yeah, no, I I I I see it. I can see that. Yeah. And actually speaking about first steps, I would assume that there is the first phase of your life where it's like, oh okay, I've got twins, I've got two babies, da-da-da. And then it's probably next level when they start toddling around. They start moving, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:29

So basically, I remember like our front room is like a it's like a through room. So you've got like the archway to the kitchen, and then it's open to the stairs. So we had to I affectionately called it the cage, but we basically got a giant play pen that was the size of the room so that we could contain them. Because once they were off, they were off. And my little girl, she walked first, and then a little boy he caught up. But they were just everywhere, and they'd climb over each other and they learn how to escape. Like he learned how to like hop skip over the sofa, and you just hear this like up the stairs. You know, like, how have you learned how to do the stairs so quickly? I don't understand. And then when the floor changed from like carpet to wood floor, like on the kitchen threshold. My little girl didn't realise that if you had if the gate wasn't there, she thought you still had to like lift your bum in the air and step over this imaginary wall. She hadn't realized that different floor, just you could just walk over it normally, but no. She didn't have a little bear crawl over and lifting her butt in the air to get over it. That's so cute.

SPEAKER_02 39:28

It was so cute because you just look at it thinking, oh, you're so silly.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Oh yeah, I can imagine that it becomes like next level of chaos when they start moving.

SPEAKER_03 39:40

And it's weird because like as adults, you've got like nice things in your house, and you've got like your ornaments, and you've got your plants yeah, no, not when you've got kids, so you have nothing out. Because you all you see is danger. You're like, that's a sharp corner, let's get rid of that really nice coffee table. Oh look, we've got a fireplace, let's like cage that bit off. And you just all you just basically live in this play pit, and that was my world was this play pit. And that was it. Like I couldn't let them out, but there's nowhere else to go. And you're like, I think day in, day out, you're like, I think we all got cabbing fever, because you're like, you're just in this same room all the time because there's nowhere else safe that I can have them, because there's two of them, because one will go one way and one will go the other way. Because I took them to the park for the first time on my own, I remember. And I had them on the reins because someone had bought me those, you know, the rucksack reins, and I was like, Oh, this is a great idea. We can toddle around the park together. Oh my gosh, it was awful. Literally, they went that way, they went that way, and then you'd pull them back and they'd cry because they've fallen over, and you're just like, This is awful. How do I like we can't walk you? And it was not working out. I was like, I've seen all these other people like toddling along with their little child, and I was like, Oh, that looks magical. No, not when you've got to, they're twisting, they're turning around you, and it's just they're hitting each other, and you're just like, I just want to go home and cry. This is awful. Who thought this was a good idea?

SPEAKER_00 40:53

Oh dear, okay, so fast forward to um today. So in the meantime, they've started going out to childcare.

SPEAKER_03 41:07

So they go nursery now, three times a week.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

Yep. So they go to nursery. So I would assume that that probably gives you a bit of time back for you. Um go back to work maybe or just three times.

SPEAKER_03 41:20

I went back to work after a year. But the only reason I managed to do that is because obviously my parents and my in laws are all um everyone's retired. So my job let me work from home. So I only do four working days. I work from home three of those days, and I go to the office once. So because it was my in-laws and my parents, I was like, I was comfortable to do that. And then obviously, I think from about the age of two and a half, they went to their little nursery, which is obviously a very outdoorsy pace place. They love, couldn't recommend an outdoorsy place more because it's hilarious when they come back and they go, I learned how to make fire. And you're like, Great. Who weaponized these children? Look, I'll show you. And you're like, no, no, no, no, not right now. Yeah, show me later in the outside. But I love it. And it's been great for them because I think it's helped them with their confidence as well, like being away from me. Because if I'm in a room, all they want to do is play with me. Like I'll take them to Playgroup, like, this is your chance to play with other children, not with me. Because like I want to talk to other mums, and all I find is they're like, Mummy, play with me, do this with me, do that with me. And you're like, But if I wasn't here, you'd be fine, you'd be playing. Which is, yeah, frustrating. You just want to talk sometimes as a mum to other mums. And that yeah, kids don't let you do that sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

No. No, they don't.

SPEAKER_03 42:35

No, they're just like everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

It it's not a function. Yeah, it's just like it's it's not loaded on the street.

SPEAKER_03 42:41

But you start wondering, like, why do we go to play group? Because I was like, they don't play. They don't want to do is annoy me when I'm trying to talk to other people.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Well, you're just moving what's happening at home outside just to another room, basically. It's a bigger room. There are other people as well.

SPEAKER_03 42:56

And they give you snacks. So there you go. Hey. One snack I don't have to make.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

So um there is something I need to share with the listeners here that you've shared with me, and I'm really impressed with that. So I'd like to have your tip on that. You've shared with me prior to recording that now your four-year-old twins will go to bed at like I think 7 pm.

SPEAKER_01 43:27

Yeah. And they just go to bed, they sleep through.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

Yeah. You've got your entire thing. How did you get to that?

SPEAKER_03 43:36

Everyone's like, tell me how did you get to that? So I think bedtime, we've always been we've always tried to have a routine. Obviously, when you got newborn, there's the moment there was no routine. Anyone who told you you've got a routine, I'm like, okay, you're you're clearly drugging your child. I don't understand how you're doing this. But for us, I think we moved them into their own room for about eight months. But that meant I would do the last feed in my bed and I'd sit in The middle with them. I'd have one either side of me, they'd have their last bottle, I'd read a story, and then they'd naturally fall asleep, and then I'd carry them through to their room. And we did that for a few months. And then I was like, they need to be able to sleep on their own because I was like, there's two of them. I was like, I cannot, I can't keep getting up all the time. So we did a little bit of little bit of soft like soft touch sleep training. Whereas they'd have their milk, they'd have their story, we'd carry them in. And then I think there was one night they both cried for about 20 minutes, and I was sat outside like on the hallway, just rocking. Just like, they will stop soon. They will stop soon. They will stop soon. I've got like the camera, like, I can do this, I can do this. And then they went to sleep. And then the second night, they actually just, they just like lay down, grizzled a little bit, and then they went to sleep. And we've sort of from that moment, we've just kept the routine. So it meant we left family things early. We've we've left everything early because at six o'clock we do the bedtime routine. Get your pajamas on, you have your milk, you have your story. Half six, they're going upstairs, we're brushing our teeth, we're doing last wee we're tucking you into bed. It's like good night, close the door, I see you in the morning. But I bought this new clock for them, which is awesome. And it um it's at six, though. They go up about six, though, we get to their bedroom, they do like their last bits and pieces, and then they've got 15 minutes, and then this clock will go red. And that means that's it, game over. No talking, no singing, because my little boy likes to sing Christmas songs at the moment randomly. We had the two. Yeah, they don't stop. Christmas songs all year. Yeah. It's like Christmas pudding, and you're like, please, just anything but Christmas pudding song. I don't understand this. But then at 6 45, that will go red, and it generally goes quiet in there. And obviously, I've got the monitor so I can see what they're doing, I can hear them, and then it will go green at seven o'clock in the morning, and that's when they know they can come out and they go downstairs and they can play. And they stay. They stay in their room. Yeah. I know. I don't I don't I don't know. You think you can sell that? I feel like there should be more that I'm telling people, but honestly, that it's just we've been really consistent with it. And they will, yeah, and they'll go downstairs and they'll play for like half hour quite happily. And then I'll get up and go downstairs with them, making breakfast. I mean, my little boy has got into the habit of he'll go downstairs at seven, he'll go to the fruit bowl, he'll get him herself an orange, get himself a plate, and he'll sit at the dining room table with his dressing gown and his slippers and it peel and eat his orange. He's like a little old man. He cracks me out. And he goes and puts all the rubbish in the bin and he puts his plate in the sink and he just continues with his day. You know you can sell that. Or raising little old men. Like yeah, that is about it. The only difference will sometimes be is my little girl, she's a bit of a morning pillower. So you might just wake up to wipe my bum. Which but that's about the only time we deviate from that. Yeah, I I wish I wish there was a magic trick I could tell everyone, but it's it's not. It's just they I think but this is where I think the twin thing comes in to help itself, is because they've always got each other. They're never on their own. Yeah. So they go to bed happily because they're not on their own. Yeah. And we still we do actually still have the white noise machine, much to my partner's dismay because he hates it. And I actually quite like it now. I quite like it because it annoys him. But they still have that, and they quite like a little night light like whale thing. And then the clock thing. And yeah, they get up in the morning, they've got each other to play. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

That's very true.

SPEAKER_03 47:14

As long as you can get through the first year of chaos, then it starts like being a benefit because they can play together and yeah, in the mornings they've got each other. Yeah, they sleep through till seven.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

You'd almost sell it to me. Almost.

SPEAKER_03 47:26

Almost.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Not not necessarily saying that I'm that's not what I'm calling for.

SPEAKER_03 47:31

But in the universe.

SPEAKER_00 47:37

Um no, that's great. Is there anything that you want to add to the story that you feel like you want to share? Maybe a question that people ask you very often?

SPEAKER_03 47:50

Um I don't know. Because I I think the main thing is the sleep thing. When people find out about the sleep, they they clearly think I'm doing something dodgy. I'm not, I promise you. It's just we've just been consistent and it we've it's meant we've given up a lot in that first year to get that routine type. But yeah, it's just it's just surviving the chaos, isn't it? And just juggling it. Each day is different, each day's got a different challenge. Yeah, I don't I don't have any magic words of wisdom. Just hold on in there, it gets better.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

Um Do you know what? I think this one is probably the best one.

SPEAKER_03 48:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:25

Because it does get better. It does. And I think whether you have twins or whether you have one child or you have five, I don't know. I don't have five, but I would assume that, you know, regardless of what it is, it just gets better.

SPEAKER_03 48:38

It does. Every stage gets that little bit easier.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:42

Yeah. It does. And it's magical along the way. But you do you do question your sanity sometimes. I have sat in the garden at three o'clock in the morning thinking, what have we done? But then the next day they'll give you like the first smile or something really cute, and you're like, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:57

Now I remember why we're doing this. I think it was a great story.

SPEAKER_03 49:02

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 49:02

Thank you so much, Liz, for sharing it.

SPEAKER_03 49:04

Anytime. It's been it's been a pleasure sharing it.

SPEAKER_00 49:07

And come back if you decide to have more, and you know, we can. There will be no more. We had twins and we moved on to triplets.

SPEAKER_03 49:15

Oh gosh, could you imagine? No. The world did not set up for triplets. I don't know, I don't know how people do that.

SPEAKER_00 49:21

We'll find out maybe if you have triplets again.

SPEAKER_03 49:25

You can have triplets, there you go.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

Mm-mm-mm-mm. Mm-mm.

SPEAKER_03 49:30

I'm sending that backwards to you. No, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 49:35

I'm good talking to people with triplets. I don't think I would be good having the triplets.

SPEAKER_01 49:43

Alright. Yeah, cool. Bye-bye. Bye. Liz, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 49:51

Thank you for bringing so much joy into this recording. And for making me laugh more than I probably have in any episode to date. I hope our listeners felt every bit of the warmth coming through. But underneath all the laughter, there is something really beautiful in your story. The woman who could not picture herself as a mum, who met the right person, who then got two for the price of one, and who now cannot imagine her life any other way. This is a love story. And I think it will resonate with so many people listening today. To anyone who found out they were expecting twins and felt the world spin a little, Liz is proof that you're going to be just fine. More than fine, actually. If this episode made you smile, share it. The world needs more of this energy. And as always, thank you so much for listening and for being part of this village. And I'll see you in the next episode. Raising with the village will now be released every other Thursday, giving me the space to keep bringing you thoughtful and honest conversations. You can find all past episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, YouTube, or wherever you usually listen. And you can follow the show there, add some new episodes, then straight into your feed. If you'd like to get in touch, share feedback or suggest a story, you can find me on Instagram at Raising with the Village. I always love hearing from you. And if this podcast has resonated with you, one of the best ways to support it is by subscribing, rating, leaving a review, or sharing an episode with someone who might need it. It truly makes a difference and helps these stories reach the people who need them most. Thank you for being part of the village, and I'll see you next time. Bye-bye.