SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey village, before we dive in, if you haven't already, hit follow on your favourite podcast platform. It takes two seconds, it costs nothing, and it means the world to me. Right. Let's go. I'm Mayvah and this reading with a bit of a podcast where real parents or real stories so we can all feel a little more connected on this wild journey of raising children. Today's episode takes us somewhere a little different, not just in location, although we are traveling all the way to Sydney, Australia for this one, but in perspective. Because sometimes the best way to see what we have and what we are still missing is to look at how someone else does it entirely. So today I'm talking to Nina. And Nina is going to take us through her pregnancy, her birth, and her early days of motherhood. Australian style. Now, I want to be clear. Nina is sharing her experience, her story, her system, her journey. This is not a scientific comparison or a policy paper. But as she was talking, I found myself leaning in further and further, nodding at the things that felt familiar and quietly thinking, why don't we have that? At the things that didn't. Things like the standardization of continuity of care, the idea that the midwife who walks you through your pregnancy is the same person who holds your hand in the delivery room. Things like a second parent lead that actually gives families the time and space to find their fit together. And then there is the pelvic floor physiotherapy. Nina saw a pelvic physio once before she gave birth and once after. Two appointments, that's it. And the results were remarkable. Now it is not part of the public health system over there. But what struck me is that it seems to just be common knowledge something women know to do, something that is talked about, recommended, passed on. And I couldn't help but think why is that not the conversation that we are having here as a standard? These are not radical ideas. They exist. They are happening. They're just not always here. Yes. But this episode is not just about systems and policies at its heart. It's about the universal experience of becoming a parent. The anticipation, the fear, the love that arrives in a way you were never quite prepared for through the lens of a woman on the other side of the world, who went through it in her own way, in her own corner of it. There is so much in this conversation that will feel familiar. And there is so much that might just make you think we deserve better than this.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

And we do. So here is Nina.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Hi, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Hi, I'm good. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 4:00

I'm very good, thank you. I'm so excited to be talking to you today.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Oh, thank you. This is the first time I've been on a podcast, so it's exciting for me too.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Oh, ooh. Right. Oh, I feel so um so special now. Thank you. Do you want to introduce yourself?

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Oh yes, yes. Um, hello, my name is Nina and I am from Australia.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

I like that it rhymes.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Yeah, my mum was very adamant about that at birth.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

It has to rhyme.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

How else will I know who I am?

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Yes, yes, indeed. Is that your full name then, Nina from Australia?

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Yeah, exactly. That is definitely my legal name.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

In that case, Nina from Australia, shall we listen to your story?

unknown 4:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

Shall we start actually? Because I think you're going to share your pregnancy story um so that at least for me, I can have a better understanding of what the pregnancy journey and maybe the early um months as well um are like after you've had a baby when you live in Australia? Is that am I good with that?

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Let's start with the very beginning of the story. And uh how did you find out you were pregnant? You want to tell me about the beginning of the story?

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Yeah, yeah, the very beginning. Um so uh my husband and I had been trying to get pregnant, so you know, it was on the cards, but I had actually done a negative pregnancy test um about you know four weeks beforehand. Uh, and then so yeah, I wasn't expecting anything. Um, but then I was actually going to a friend's party, um, and I knew that there would be cocktails involved. So I thought, uh, I better just do a pregnancy test, you know, just to be safe. Um, and so I was getting ready for the party, you know, I was choosing my outfit, whatever, I was rushing around. Um, my husband wasn't home. I just did the test and I kind of wasn't even thinking about it. I just put it down and I looked at it and it was positive. And I was like, what? And then yeah, of course, like, duh, like it once I saw the positive test, it kind of made a few other things more apparent to me, like, oh, my boobs did seem like they were a bit bigger. And you know, other little clues like that. But um, yeah, I I was a bit taken aback, even though we had been trying to get pregnant. So yes. Um I had to call my husband and tell him to pull over because he was driving as well.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

What was his reaction?

SPEAKER_01 7:06

He was um I was like, I was in like a kind of crazed, you know, excited state. I was like, pull over, pull over. And he's like, what, what? Apparently our dog had just vomited in the dark. It was all very um exciting. And then um, yeah, I was like, I'm Rainden. And he was, yeah, just he I can imagine his face being exactly the same as mine was when I had just found out a few minutes earlier. Like shocked, excited, shocked, excited, just in a kind of crazy loop.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

I love that, and I love I love the the detail of the dog that threw up. Was the dog pregnant as well?

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Good question. I I haven't done a uh a test for her, so yeah, maybe she's hiding something.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

At this point, once you've done your your test, what what what comes next? Do you have to what actually yeah, what do you do? Do you call a doctor? Do you have to book an exam? What what do you do?

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Yeah, the norm is that um straight away. So the expectation in Australia is that you'll get it confirmed by a doctor, um, not just the, you know, not just the stick in the box. Um, so yeah, I went and booked an appointment for just a local doctor who I could see obviously ASAP. Um and yeah, he said uh he he did the tests and he said, Oh, you're yeah, about um six or seven weeks pregnant. And I was like, Oh. So, you know, um it was a bit, yeah, again, a bit surprising, but a happy and very, you know, welcome surprise. Um, and then once you sort of done that, they start asking you, oh, um, so have you thought about where you want to give birth and that kind of thing? And it's all go, go, go. Obviously, it's um quite a time-sensitive uh, you know, thing. So yeah, even though in that moment you're like, of course I haven't thought about what I'm gonna do. Well, that that was me anyway. I was like, I've only found out I've been pregnant for four minutes.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

So actually, sorry, before we go into that, um, I was wondering, you said the doctor did the test. What kind of test is did they do? Was that a blood test, a urinary test?

SPEAKER_01 9:34

I think it was a blood test. It might have been a urine test as well. Pretty much, I I I don't know what it's like in the UK, but once you um are established to be pregnant, you do all number of tests all the time. So if you had to ask me at what point in my pregnancy did I do, you know, a blood test or it I give a urine sample or whatever, I just say like I don't, you know, all the time, like 20 times. So yes, I'm pretty sure it was a blood test.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

So at that point the doctor is like, congratulations, you're six to eight weeks pregnant. And it's at that point that you've got to start thinking about delivery and where you want to give birth.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Yeah, pretty much. So they they ask you, oh, have you yet have you considered what you know model of care you'd like to follow? Um, and your options are um through, you know, uh like private, public, then there's like midwife, um, then there's something they call GP shared care, which is um, yeah, where you're doing most of your appointments through your GP, um, and midwifery group practice, which is what I ended up going with.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

And so is that because it was more local to you, more practical? What was your thinking there?

SPEAKER_01 10:58

The mid yeah, the mid the midwifery group practice. Um, I I had actually done, you know, a bit of research um about it beforehand and also just heard a lot from friends. Uh, and the idea of the midwifery group practice is just that you have the same um midwife throughout your pregnancy and also at the birth.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

So yeah, it's a really nice um model where yeah, you just don't have to explain everything about yourself over and over again. And um, yeah, it's it's about the continuity of care. Uh, and there is quite a lot of evidence coming out that it has the best outcomes for you know the mothers and for the babies. So um, yeah, so I was keen to get into a hospital. Not all hospitals offer it. So I was keen to get in somewhere that offered the midwifery group model.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Oh, that's so cool. And that's part of the public offer?

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Yes, exactly. So um it's uh it's I'm not sure if every hospital has it. I don't think every hospital does, but it's also very competitive. So pretty much the idea is as soon as you find out you're pregnant, you've got to call um your local health district and say, I want to be part of the medwill-free group practice, and cross your fingers, basically.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Don't worry if you don't know the answer to that. But um, do you need to sort of tick some boxes, or rather, maybe not tick some boxes, like say um if you have um, you know, it's a twin pregnancy or multiple pregnancy, maybe um based on age.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Um it's like you know the guidelines. I think it is that sort of inverse box ticking where yeah, you have to have a low-risk um pregnancy. Um, so yeah, luckily that was yeah, I I fit the criteria for that. So I was allowed to um yeah, proceed with that group. And it's based on, I guess another detail to mention is it's based on your geography. So pretty much you have to be within the local area of the hospital because um after you give birth, they also do um a couple of home visits to you. So you get discharged from the hospital, and that midwife will come and visit you at home. So yeah, it's um also just about making sure it's convenient to everyone involved.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Oh, it's so lovely. I really like that you are with the same assumingly lady, um, midwife from the well well, they are um men, midwives at as well, and they are also called midw midwives. Um, I think.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Um but um I've never seen one, but I'm sure they're out there.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

Uh I think I have seen one. Anyway, it's a story for another time. Um but I love that that you're with the same person from um your very early days into that journey all the way to after the baby is born.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

I think yeah, it's not yeah, it's it's not the very, very beginning because I think it starts at when you start getting the regular scans, which is I think it's at 16 weeks? It might be earlier than that. I think it's at 16 weeks, that's when you start having those fortnightly appointments and those kind of um Wow that get onto the program.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Okay, so before we jump into the beginning of the second trimester, do you want to tell me a little bit about your first trimester? So that's before the midwifery. What what happens then?

SPEAKER_01 14:38

Um in the first trimester, you have, I think there's like certain clinical indicators for whether you'll need say, um, I had with uh so still under the care of my GP, I had um some blood tests done, and that was sort of a risk screening thing. Um so I think because I was uh 35 or you know, advanced maternal age.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

D do they call it that?

SPEAKER_01 15:08

I think that's a new term. It used to be called geriatric pregnancy.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Yeah, grandmum.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Equally, yeah, equally like okay, how you're going. But um, yeah, because um I was that age, they do um extra screening, uh, and they also test you for things like um, yeah, for preeclampsia and other pregnancy disorders like that, because of your um, I guess the the risk presented by your age.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Do you have anything else happening in what happens actually during the first trimester? I feel like the first trimester is very much a blur. It's very much about sort of maybe keeping it to yourself and being vaguely sick or quite sick. Um what was it like for you?

SPEAKER_01 15:53

Oh, I forgot to, yeah, the first um the in the first, I think it was sixth, yeah, upon upon getting the blood test in the very beginning. Um I also got an ultrasound because they want to, I think, determine um the like viability of the you know, zygote. So yeah, there's that first ultrasound very, very early on, and then um you get a 10-week ultrasound as well. Yeah, those were some other things that happened in the first trimester. I don't screw casting my mind back in terms of the medical stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

And what about you personally? How did you feel during this first trimester? What was your state of mind?

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Um, the first trimester was for me, I think the main symptom was just feeling very, very tired. Um, and just like getting home from work and just sleeping on the couch, which is like not, you know, very uh like my usual behavior. So just having no energy and just feeling like, oh my god, I made it through the day. Um, and just amazed by yeah, the phenomenal like amount of effort it took just to do simple things. Um and yeah, I felt pretty, other than that, I felt pretty well. Um, I was lucky I didn't really get um morning sickness. Um, just a little bit when, especially again, my dog. Um, whenever I had to clean up dog poo, that was a real trigger for me. I guess it's like it's like a real um, you know, a biological s signal in your mind to be like, don't go near. Um but yeah, that was the only thing that triggered my morning sickness. Um and yeah, I didn't get any cravings, which I was kind of disappointed by because I thought that seemed like a kind of fun and kooky thing about pregnancy, but I just you know wanted to eat all of my normal food, so it was pretty boring actually.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

So disappointing.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

Yeah, totally. And then yeah, it's just I guess the element of having to um having to not having to hide it, but like yeah, I guess I don't know, I guess there's societal pressure in a way to hide it and um to not say anything in the early days, um, although a lot of my um friends and colleagues sort of figured it out anyway, because I guess there's always those signs like that, oh you're behaving differently from before, or like, oh you didn't have anything to drink at our Christmas party. Like, that's how I got found out.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

What's going on? Partyanina.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

Yeah, exactly. And people were like, what are you drinking? And you know, with that knowing look, and you're like, uh be a mocktail. But yeah, I guess no, I I I had let um, you know, some friends and family know, but also I think we were keeping it a bit under wrath until a a little bit later as well.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

We go past um this Christmas party, apparently. Uh and um and then you enter your second trimester? Is that about right? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

Yeah, yeah, we'll do that.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

And so then at that point you said that you were getting what you were seeing midwives every other week? Or what what happens during your second trimester?

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Yeah, um the appointments do, I'm pretty sure it's every fortnight. It might be, I think it might start as every month and then it switches to every fortnight, like the closer to the birth. Um, but yeah, I think that's how it works. Uh so at first, you know, they're just checking like the midwife's checking your um blood pressure, checking the, you know, that thing where they measure the fundal height um of your belly, they're doing those sort of measurements. Uh yeah, and telling you it's sort of, I think, an educational opportunity. So they're telling you about, okay, this is how to prepare for the birth. And have you thought about, you know, um, how you're gonna get to the hospital? And who, like, who do you have in your home? So they're sort of using this as opportunities to provide health care when they can, I guess, which is not.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

That's really good. Yeah, it's really good. So um, since we're on it, um, what was your plan? And then we can when we we can come back to it when we get to that point in your story to compare the notes.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Yeah, yeah, good question. Um, I was very pro, basically the first one of the first things uh when I heard about the Midwifery Group uh program was like, are they gonna let me have an epigeral? I really want to have one. And they were like, yes, you know, if they were sort of like, oh, you know, you can try other methods. I was like, that's fine, I'm happy to try other stuff, but I want to know, you know, is that gonna be allowed? Um, because sometimes, you know, they can be a bit crunchy for like avoiding those things. But um, yeah, so that was my plan. I wanted to be uh I I was scared, I guess, a bit of, you know, the stories you hear, like people saying it's the most painful thing you can ever experience, and you know, just the sort of portrayal I'd seen in like movies and stuff. So I think it's just and it's thinking about it is Something like giving birth is something there's no preparation you can really do that compares to it in any way. It's just like, you know, you're gonna do this thing and yeah, there there's no just one day it's gonna happen and like you have to mentally prepare, but that's about all you can do, really. Like you can eat what do they what do they make you eat days? You can eat dates, but there's nothing super hands-on you can do.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

What's the cultural norm in Australia? Is that quite common to have an eputer room or is that more natural birth sort of medication-free or c-sections? Or do you know? Do you have any idea about that?

SPEAKER_01 22:45

Yeah, yeah. Um, I think so both probably all of them are normal. I know that C-sections are always going up, like they're becoming more and more common. Um, I don't know if that's due to like um, you know, the the age of mothers is going up, so that sort of necessitates um more and more people wanting or needing to have c-sections. Um, epigeoles are also quite common. I think it's something like 30%, something around that of um, yeah, um, women giving birth will go for something like that. And then natural again is also fairly common. Like there's no sort of stigma against any of the options, but there to be fair, actually, there is a bit of a um, there can be some midwives who were preferring you to go with less pain relief um and might go for more natural birth. So that's why, because I knew about that sort of attitude in my mind, but I was very sure that that's what I wanted. So I was just like, okay, I'm just just wanting to confirm that you know that's gonna be uh an option for me.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

If you go with the mid-with-free option, do you still retain all of the options? Is that the same as going to a hospital? Can you still have a sort of an emergency C section, I guess, maybe? Or are you cutting yourself out of those options?

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Yeah, um no, the the thing that appealed to me about the middle-trip root practice as well is that you are giving birth in a hospital. So um, you know, anything that you need is just down the hall in terms of like further interventions and if you change your mind, um, yeah, you can have, you know, there's yeah, there's a whole hospital's worth of staff and gear ready to help you. So I was sort of reassured by that as well.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

Okay. So physically is that, or at least for your hospital specifically or your case specifically, was it a one building that was the midwifery and then sort of directly connected to a hospital, or is that physically in the same location?

SPEAKER_01 25:07

Yeah, it i in my um circumstances it was literally in the hospital. It's more just a model of care.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

But it's like yeah, it's like um old secretion versus midwife, I suppose.

unknown 25:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Yeah. Okay, thank you for the clarification. It was just for me. I don't know if anyone else was wondering about that. Uh and then I had another question for you because you mentioned about them, you know, giving you advice tips or um asking you to start thinking about your options and how you were going to prepare for the birth. Did you um sign up to any classes? Did you do any did you do anything to prepare for your birth?

SPEAKER_01 25:55

Yeah. Um, so uh my husband and I did six weeks worth of birth classes. I think that's pretty standard in Australia, or at least where I live. Um, and that will be like offered at your local hospital as well, and you're in a group with other people who are giving birth at the hospital soon. Um, so you know, everyone's kind of nervous and excited and doing practice with the that giant gym ball and sort of you're like swaddling, what we swaddling like um cabbage patch dolls and yeah, just all the and giving us like handouts from like 1985, it looks like. But um yeah, it was nice actually. We connected with um a group of those the the people who we did the class with, we're still in touch. We're in a WhatsApp group and we catch up sometime. So yeah, it's nice that we inadvertently made some friends through that as well. Um and I also did, I I went to a um, what's it called? Like a women's health health physio, like a pelvic physio, because I'd had recommendations from other friends that that was like a really good thing to, you know, have as much knowledge and um preparation as you could. So yeah, I found that to be very helpful as well, but that was done privately.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Okay, okay. Any anything else? Any other classes you you did or I don't know, videos you watched or training?

SPEAKER_01 27:31

I'll talk not not videos. I tried to stay away from videos as much as possible. Um, but I did listen to um a podcast much like uh this actually called Australian Birth Stories. Um and yeah, I just wanted to hear about all the different things that could happen. And it I like you said, it was super interesting seeing what um people had planned for versus what really happened. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Well, this podcast is the one that started it all.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

We thank them. Um great. Okay, cool. So we are in the second trimester at this point. So you're having your um all your appointments and they're uh giving you tips to prepare uh for the birth. Anything else that happens at this point uh that should be noted, or can we move along to the third trimester?

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Um, I think at this point, um it was like the point, like I still didn't really look very pregnant, so I was still having to convince people that I really was, you know, having a baby in a few months. Um and yeah, just you you have a 20-week ultrasound as well. That's a super exciting one because they they do it, they spend about 50 minutes doing it and really like you really see something that looks like a baby as opposed to just like you know, the early scans where you're like, I don't know, it looks like a jelly bean. Um but yeah, the 20-week one it was yeah, getting lots of movement and lots of sort of gestures. So yeah, it was exciting to see something was happening. But I found the second semester, second semester, second finest, um very long pregnancy. Yeah, yeah, very long. Um, you know, it was very chill for me. That was just like I was still like going to the gym. I just started modifying, like stopping doing sit-ups or whatever you're not meant to do, like abdom abdominal stuff. Um yeah, but yeah, second trimester was like, ah, this isn't it so bad, you know. Energy's back, hair's looking good.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

And did you find out or did you want to find out uh the sex of the baby at the 20-week scan?

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Ah, well, we had found found out already because um of the, you know, I mentioned to you that I did some testing early on due to my like advanced age. Um, so those tests uh identified the biological sex. Um, and when they called us with the results, they said, Do you want to know the sex? I really couldn't resist. So we said, Yes, of course, tell us. So um, yeah, they told us, but when they told us, they sent us through this like well, uh I'll describe it as like a data sheet, and it was describing like the you know, the list of chromosomes, and it like looking at that was like the least clear way. I was just going, what does it mean? Is it is it a boy or a girl? And eventually we figured out like it's a girl. So that was a super exciting moment once we deciphered um the code that the lab had sent through. Like, oh my god, we're having a girl. I thought it would be a boy because my um baby was very wow, very active, and so many people kept telling me, oh, it's a must be a boy, and I just was like, Yeah, I guess so. But I guess it was just um a bit of, you know, uh sexism because turned out that she was a very active little girl, not a very active little boy.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Yeah, well, there you go. Did she turn out to be a very active baby?

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Yes. Well, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

Yeah, the evidence was there from the very beginning. But um, yeah, it's funny seeing something like that where you're like, I guess your your your characteristics were there all along, you know?

SPEAKER_00 31:49

And it was very much strongly an active girl. We are for active girls. Woo! Um what's it like at work when you are in your second trimester? Is that when you start to have conversations with um the time that you're going to go away?

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Yeah, I think it was it was probably for me. I probably said something like fairly early in the second trimester. I think it was around the 20 weeks-ish. It might have been, no, I think it was a bit before that. Yeah, it was a bit before that. Um, so yeah, uh just having that meeting where you tell your manager, oh, I've got some news, and they're like, which direction is this going? But yeah, no, it was um it was the happy direction. Uh yeah, and just in Australia, you can uh everyone is like eligible to take uh a year of unpaid leave um for the birth parent, and then the secondary parent gets, I think. Oh to be honest, I don't know if this is um at the discretion of the employer or what, but they usually take a few weeks off. But yeah, typically it's um yeah, one year, and you can extend it to two years, I think, depending on your discussions with your manager. But it will be like one year of unpaid leave, and then um you can get certain entitles from your own work and from the government as well.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Is that fully unpaid um when you are on maternity leave, or is there a part where you do receive a portion of your salary, or how does that work?

SPEAKER_01 33:44

Um, so for me, it was the the one year is basically uh the year is unpaid. That's sort of like you can take a year off your job, that's the you know, understanding uh and come back. But then uh you can also get, I think it's around 22 weeks of like the minimum wage. Um, so yeah, that is what is provided by the government. Um, and on top of that, you can get, well, it depends on your employer. Um, but I got I think 14 weeks full pay, something like that. Uh, and then you can do some, you know, clever things to stretch out the time um to sort of cover that year. So, for example, I was taking my annual leave, which I had about five weeks of annual leave as well. So I was taking that alternating one week and then one week of unpaid to just you know stretch it out over time. Um, yeah, but altogether, um, yeah, it added up to being just under a year, which was nice.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

So, at what point do you start your your Met leave, your maternity leave?

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Um, you can, I think you can start it something like up to four weeks before you give birth. But um yeah, I I was because I was feeling pretty good and I wanted to save it for like when the baby was here. So I actually worked up until I think was about two weeks, ten days, something like that before I ended up giving birth. So now now when I think about that and like how pregnant I was at the end, I'm like, wow, that was a lot. But um, yeah, it was yeah, it was what I decided to do at the time.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

Yeah, I think that's quite similar in many ways to um the British system. But going back to your story, um I think we can now jump into your final trimester. What was that one like?

SPEAKER_01 35:56

Yeah, um, the final trimester was for me when I really started like feeling pregnant, I guess both in the physical and uh mental way. Um, because yeah, I hadn't really felt, apart from like a bit of yeah, tiredness at the beginning, I just hadn't felt that different. You know, I was like, it's just me. Um and I guess because I yeah, in the third trimester though, it was like, oh, I'm getting really heavy, I'm getting really uncomfortable. Um, my feet, like my shoes stopped fitting because my feet were so swollen. So like at the very end, I was going to work in my UG boots um because I couldn't like wear any of my shoes, which was just crazy. Um and yeah, that was at that point when I was like, okay, I'm ready, you know, I'm ready to give birth now. Um I'm I've experienced a pregnancy, I get it. I'm like having to do those weird things like uh the you know, the pillow where you sleep on your side and like you're always trying to shift around in bed. Yeah, just all of those kind of wacky pregnancy things. I was like, all right. Yeah, I've I'm done. The experience now, I'm done.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

I've done it. I've completed the experience. Let's move along.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

I know what it feels like now. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

I didn't have this very and can I ask, did you have a winter baby or summer baby?

SPEAKER_01 37:29

Uh a winter baby.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

A winter baby. So just because I find that hilarious because we're not on the same side of the globe when when is a winter baby in Australia?

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Uh that was uh July.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

So July, I love I just love that July is a winter baby because here in the UK July is firmly a summer baby.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

Yeah, no, she it couldn't have been more wintery, to be honest. And I I think now, like knowing how like hot and sort of like what's the word when you're like stumbling around, like just not being able to walk up a flight of stairs without losing breath. If I had had to do that in the height of summer, that would have been a lot. So because even doing it in winter was, you know, quite unpleasant.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

Um yeah, I I love the anecdote. And I hear you. Uh so okay, we are uh third trimester. You are done with the experience. That's it. Thank you. We've we've we've done that. Tick the box. Um can baby come out? So do you want to uh tell me a bit more about the end of your pregnancy?

SPEAKER_01 38:47

Yeah, um so uh uh I was yeah, I was on, I'd started my maternity leave. Um, you know, I was doing all the like meal prep and thinking about okay, is a hospital bag patched in the birth class? That was something they really emphasized, you know, in bold capital letters, like make sure the hospital bag is packed. And um I'd actually, uh, as I've mentioned, I'd been going to my um, you know, midwife appointments, and I'd actually noticed that um my blood pressure had been going up every appointment. And I was like, hmm, you know, that seems like um there could be a risk. Um, but yeah, my midwife was like, oh, I'm sure you're fine. Like I didn't have any um of the other, you know, indicators of pre-clampsia. But I was like, oh, you could really like draw a line in the direction that it's going on a chart, you know. Um, but it was weird because I felt fine, like I'd, you know, swum laps in the pool that morning. Um, but yeah, I I ended up speaking to a friend of mine, uh, and she was like, oh, you know, you know, once you're at term, you can just go into the hospital and say, like, I want to have this baby now, you don't need to sort of wait around. And I was like, what? Are you allowed to do that? Because um, to be honest, that hadn't really occurred to me that you could just uh you could just decide, like, yeah. I I guess essentially uh saying I want to be induced. So um yeah, I ended up checking my blood pressure at home because my parents had like loaned me uh, you know, carving. And it was kind of alarmingly high. So I was like, oh, just go to the hospital. And you know, my husband and I had thought, like, oh, this is they'll they'll definitely just send me home. Like it's you know, it's nothing. Um I think we even like hadn't really packed our bag properly because we just thought, oh yeah, you know, the midwives all are always just saying that everything's just normal. Um, yeah. So we ended up going in for what I thought was just a check, and they ended up um diagnosing me with pre-clampsphere and saying, Oh, you're actually not leaving this hospital without giving birth, um, which was pretty exciting and crazy.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

So you So did you sort of understood yourself? Or maybe not understood, but did you have a feeling that maybe you had preclemsia because you said that you started checking your blood pressure um at home? Is it how how were you aware of um pre-clempsia? Has had it been mentioned to you before?

SPEAKER_01 41:43

Yeah, it had been mentioned because in that um early early pregnancy testing that I'd done, there was something in the results that they flagged as like a slightly that I had a slightly elevated risk for preclams. I was taking um aspirin as like a preventative thing. Um, but then I hadn't had any of the normal symptoms, um, apart from just yeah, my blood pressure, which had been like perfectly normal, just going up and up every, you know, every two weeks. Um, and that's why I I just I don't know, my spidey sensors were like, I think something's up, you know? Um and I don't know if it was like, yeah, maternal instinct or what, but it turned out that it was right. Um, so yeah, I yeah, I went to the hospital and they were like, yeah, let's you can have a baby right now, which because I'd been dreading the like last two months of be uh two months, the last like two weeks of being extremely pregnant. Um, because you know there's that rumor that first-time mums always go over. I don't know, do they have that rumor in the UK?

SPEAKER_00 42:54

I think so, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

Yeah. Yeah, so I thought, oh, for sure I'm gonna go way over my due date, you know, so on. Um, yeah, but uh yeah, it turns out that I ended up being induced, so I didn't have to worry about that.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

So you were induced because of the potential that you had preclampsia, or because you asked for it, or a bit of both?

SPEAKER_01 43:21

Um, it was it was like a clinical recommendation. Basically, they so I went in, I said, like, oh yeah, I've had high blood pressure today. They did a urine test, they did a blood test, and they were like, Yeah, you have preclampsia, so we recommend, you know, inducing pretty much. And I was happy to do that because I was like, you know, let's go. Let's have this baby.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

Okay. So you were induced. Um, how did they do that? What which option or flavor? I don't know how to say. Which flavor did you get?

SPEAKER_01 43:56

Yeah, it was I I liked how like consultative they were. They sort of ran me through the different options and I ended up going with um one called excuse me um syntocinin so I think it's like a um synthetic um oxytocin and they pretty much sold it to me by being like we only have to do this one once and I was like like applied to the cervix once I was like I'll take that one um and they're like good choice it's like ah excellent I was ordering a chardonnay or something but um yeah no it was it it worked well um they get it uh sorry they started me on the syntozen and at I think it was about 5 p.m in the afternoon so that was a nice sort of um on ramp I guess to the birth because it was like okay we'll just get the process started my midwife went home to have a sleep um I was able to sleep you know till about I woke up at midnight and took some panadol or something like that because I was like oh I'm starting to feel admittive cramping um but I sorry what is panadol oh um paracetamol oh paracetamol okay thank you yes yeah sorry um yeah so I had a couple of those and then yeah was able to sleep through till 4am at which point I was like oh I'm really starting to be in labour now um so I kinda I cannot sleep anymore okay and so at that point you call your midwife back um well I knew that she wasn't gonna start like her round started at 7am um so I sort of had to just um you know grit my teeth and wait for 7am um but yeah it wasn't too bad because it was only I guess a couple of hours by that point and in a way it was you know yeah it was uh definitely starting it was all kicking off so it was a bit exciting for me as well because I was like oh I'm actually in labour right now like you know it's really happening um and by the time yeah my midwife got there I was like Jen like I I don't like you have to come and yeah I think she ended up checking me I was I think I was like something like six centimeters dilated already something like that by that point so I was like oh good okay not too much more to go you know and did you get your epidural I I did but the um the anesitist didn't start the rounds until 9 a.m or 10am or did a few yeah I know shame so I had to to tough it out for a few more hours um and there are some funny photos where uh after the effidrol gets you know inserted there's photos like selfies and my husband and I took of like me drinking a sprite looking like fears of lab and then there's some there's these picks and then unfortunately for me the effigeral um like didn't work properly or it like worked at first and then it wore off. Not exactly sure um what happened but I'm sure that it stopped working halfway through. Oh no um so yeah I know and they're putting down really no photos of that point.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

Oh no so hang on so it means that uh the labour probably started at sort of five thirty pm and you went all the way to say 10 a.m the next day and only at that point did you get your IP to roll and it still didn't actually work properly.

SPEAKER_01 47:55

Well it no it worked for about two hours. Oh okay and that was awesome because I I'm like I could definitely notice when it was working I was like yeah can't feel anything I can feel you know the pressure um and I know what to do but I couldn't feel the pain but yeah then I I I I asked like a um an ESODIS friend to explain it later on when I was like what the hell happened not that he'd had anything to do with it but I was just like how could this happen and he said yeah there are some you know weird things that can happen where sometimes it's like the dose just I don't know something like your s your nerve signals need more to overcome the block or I don't know exactly how it works, but whatever that was, uh it was happening in my case for sure. Well shame sounds painful shame they um oh and um I had you know that thing the contraction thing they put on your belly to like measure the babies um to measure contractions and oh yeah the belt yeah the belt so um my husband had been watching the the dial on the monitor and he was just kind of reacting to what he was seeing on the dial and he's going rising rising on when he was when he was saying that then I knew I was about to feel like something really you know really intense so um I told him okay you're not allowed to say oh my god and you're not allowed to say rising and all of them yeah all of the midwives were like snickering about that because they're like oh yeah you know these husbands what was the birth actually like after all that time so you're you know half off of your epidural dose after it's worked so well for a couple hours and then showtime yeah showtime so um it was just that I I don't know it's uh surreal feeling isn't it where it's like you feel like no time I remember looking at the clock and thinking there's no way it's only 10 o'clock in the morning like that's not possible you know because I felt like I had been there for like light years or something. Um but yeah looking at the time just being like no that's obviously wrong um and another sort of out of body thing was saying later on to my husband like did I not like was I naked and he was like yeah you were really naked I was like oh was I which like of course you are but it's just such a weird thing to be naked in public and not even know all care. Um so yeah I guess that I guess that you know gives you uh an indication of my state of mind at the time um but yeah no wait the baby was coming um the the midwife there was a few doctors as well just for that sort of crunch point time coming in and out and they were giving me like encouragement they were telling me uh you know you you were born to do this which I was like oh that's a nice you know that's a nice sentiment I can do this um I was laughing in hindsight about the concept of you know oh make a playlist with like whale sounds and stuff which I like I couldn't even tell you like what room I was in you know let alone appreciate music um yeah but uh another nice thing I guess about you know how I mentioned before that I saw the pelvic physio she had um she had told me because I'd heard some bad or like mixed reviews about getting um epesiotomies um and I wanted to be sort of ready in advance if I was going to need one. So I said okay what's your stance like on epesiotomies and she said well my advice to you would be if they tell you that you need one you should get it straight away because if you say I don't want one and then 20 minutes later they have to give you one they might not be able to get the angle yeah that yeah and they might not be able to get the angle of the incision right and the angle is the most important thing like with your bidiotomy so um in terms of preventing yeah like tearing and issues. So with that that was her sort of comment and I and she was like look nowadays they don't just give them out for nothing like they're very conservative so I felt reassured and like I guess empowered that okay if I'm gonna get an epesiotomy it's because I know what the risks and the benefits are and yeah as it happened um they they did need to do one and they said are you like happy like the babies it's something they kept saying the word kaput or whatever that is so like the kaput is stuck. So yeah they ended up using an epesiotomy and I was like yeah do it you know just wanted to I wanted to get her out um so I was glad that I'd already thought about that ahead of time because then in the moment you know I'd already decided what I wanted.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

That's such a good tip I don't think I've ever heard that before um that sort of if they suggest that you should go for an episodomy it's probably because you you really really need one but they have it's their best kind of window to go for it and it's gonna be nice and clean like literally clean cut.

SPEAKER_01 53:56

Yeah unfortunately yes exactly so ah that's such a good tip thank you for that never thought about that yeah I really like that too and um but before that too they gave me a local anesthetic like an injection because as I mentioned uh every drawer wasn't working so luckily they weren't just like well you know with everything else that's happening what's a bit more but no obviously they were like here have a local anesthetic and then yeah they gave me the episiotomy and she popped out like I don't know one push later so good call good call wow we appreciate that yeah totally very good delivery so um now since we are on the episiotomy baby's out and we'll come back to that congratulations um it's a very active little girl but w what uh you know I I don't know if we have to jump um forward a bit but what's the aftercare for the episiotomy um it was just like not too different I guess to general um vaginal delivery so it was to be honest I felt the pain to be very sort of mild um for that so it was just like yeah um cleaning drying nothing sort of super unusual especially when you've just given birth so you know the whole like area is a bit of a mess anyway so I mean I've never not had an a psiotomy so I don't know what it would be like to not have one but um yeah I was like you know it's all pretty um it's all pretty in need of TLC right now. So yeah I didn't find that I I think I had a couple of mild painkillers the day after for it but it wasn't too bad at all.

SPEAKER_00 55:55

Okay. And then it just sort of comes back on its own and I guess maybe um your midwife checked it a couple of times on the home visits?

SPEAKER_01 56:04

Yeah. Yeah yeah they checked it and then um I think they must had those you know dissolvable stitches or whatever but yeah I didn't have any issues with it. It was just like and when I saw the incision later on I was like oh that's you know that's pretty small that's fine. Obviously at the time I've like had no idea it was just like get the baby out what what what are we talking about actually is that like 10 centimeters or more like one or what are we talking about? It was a couple of centimeters yeah but not not like as much as 10.

SPEAKER_00 56:42

Yeah okay because I have no idea yeah ten sounds like like a finger length so that would be quite a lot yeah quite a lot yeah well thank you for that definitely learned that much thank you so much um okay so coming back now to um the birth so the baby's out and you're happy what happens after that do you do you do um what's it called um delay cord clamping in my case um I actually so I gave birth but I ended up actually having a postpartum hemorrhage so um yeah it was all pretty like busy straight away um and you know they were very the staff were like very calm but also I could tell like they were trying to resolve something um which was the bleeding so yeah they um I think they decided to cut the cord themselves because they were like oh let's just it was they were saying oh it's better you know for my husband to not um you know get involved at that exact moment because they were sort of dealing with the yeah with the bleeding so did you or your husband realize what was going on or did they tell you after it had been sort of fixed?

SPEAKER_01 58:12

No like I think we did realize because you know it's a weird I guess it's a weird thing because you're um con it's like a weird operation that you're conscious for. So you're just like there watching the whole thing. And yeah we knew it was happening but um yeah I I remember looking at you know with the continuity of care I had the same midwife you know for months now and I remember looking at her and just being like okay you know I'll just keep making eye contact with her and like she'll make sure that I'm okay. And in that moment I felt like I really had someone I really trusted who I was like okay she'll she'll sort me out you know so it was like a moment where having the the midwife that I really knew um really reassured me and made me feel like okay everything's gonna be fine.

SPEAKER_00 59:08

Yeah I guess that's the real strong benefit of that continuity of care um that you know that your team is not just your partner but it's also um that midwife that knows you uh knows your reaction and you know and how you behave I guess to this that or the other it's uh yeah I I love I love how it's really just extending your support team directly in in the hospital in the theatre um a few other faces had like suddenly appeared because like when you're hemorrhaging you know they're like okay bring in you know bring in the um gynecologist whoever um but she was still there the whole time and it was just really reassuring to be like okay my girl's still here yeah so was that one of those cases where the hospital jumped into the midwifery?

SPEAKER_01 59:59

Yeah yeah yeah pretty much it like converted straight away into normal you know like it it was the exact kind of situation where you would want to be in a hospital for I guess because that and that was part of my um thinking before I gave birth to was I was like well I don't know like I know that obviously historically childbirth has been very dangerous for women so I wanted to be you know near medical care just in case um and yeah it turns out that yeah that was very good in my case because um yeah they were able to identify the you know the issue of the bleeding and um just stop it. So yeah I was very lucky that I was in the hospital. Yeah no definitely that was an intense delivery yeah what happens at that funny because you're in that moment but you're like I also just gain birth but then you're just also in the middle of this like mini crisis but um you have also have a baby.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:00

So what happened to your little girl during that time? Did she go away with the brand new dad?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:05

No um they put her on my chest so that was one of the things they really emphasize um here in Australia is yeah that uh what do they call it like skin to skin so as soon as the baby's born they want it to be you know on you um so yeah that that didn't stop them from giving her to me giving yeah her to me and yeah she just was on my chest while all this kind of control chaos was going on.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:35

Oh I love that. I love I mean yes I can't imagine the chaos that you're having your moment with your daughter you're just meeting with her but at the same time everyone is sort of like very active because it's still quite red uh down below.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:50

Uh exactly so half of your brain is like oh my god look at this baby and the other half of your brain is like wait um what what's going on guys? So yeah it was it's a lot a lot going on in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:06

Were you able to then so you know assumingly after this is um taken care of and you move back into a room I would assume or where where'd you go?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:19

Yeah you move from like a delivery war delivery room to your um recovery room um so that was just I was lucky um even though it was a public hospital I was able to get a private room so um in the this particular hospital they let the partners sleep there as well. So yeah it was me um my partner and our baby so yeah we we were wheeled off to our room and then just starting to you know figure it all out and they um they do a lot of tests I think like for um diseases or disorders that can be treated early on so they do uh right like heel prick tests and they do all of those sort of normal newborn tests that check their hearing and their sight and all of their senses. And how long do you stay in the hospital for um I think the norm is about uh one night in a public hospital um but in my case I was there for about five nights um and that was because of my complications.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:34

It's probably quite reassuring that you know they kept you just to make sure that they don't send you home until you're properly fit to leave the hospital in constant care I would assume.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:47

Yeah it was nice um because yeah it was both for me um because I ended up yeah just having like an eye and transfusion stuff like that and then also obviously it meant that we just had a lot more opportunities to spend time with the midwives who would teach us um okay you know what what to do with the baby right now when you're a brand new parent and you have absolutely no idea what you're doing in the first couple of days. So yeah it was great. Um in a way it was great to be in the hospital because yeah we got a lot of expert support at the very beginning.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:23

Oh that's lovely. Can I ask a question? It may sound like a random question but um as I'm sure lots of people have guessed I um have a French accent so um I was actually born and raised in France uh but I live in the UK and um a big difference is bath time um for newborns. Do you give a bath to the baby at the hospital or in the early days before the corn detaches fully or do you not?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:58

The the advice that we got was to not um bathe them. So the advice was about like letting the vernix and whatever other matters are on the baby um if you've had a vaginal delivery anyway it's like helpful for them it convers some health benefits um yeah so they just kind of end up having a bit of goop on them for for a little while what what is it in the UK?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:28

Very similar in the UK but in France you tend to uh bass the baby really really early on uh in those first days so it's um just interesting some stereotypes there. Yeah so there you go.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:41

Well thank you for that it was just personal curiosity I was wondering yeah no it's um yeah we're we're in that camp of like just the baby will come home a bit crusty.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:54

Yeah definitely Okay and speaking of coming home so

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

um five days later you go home what does it look like so you go home and your partner is off of work what does it look like yeah he was off work for um he had I think seven weeks of leave due to what he'd sort of you know cobbled together and organized um so that was really nice because yeah I mean especially because I ended up being in hospital for five or six days if he'd had like the standard two weeks that would have been half the whole time which is you know wild but we at least got to have almost those first two months um with the two of us you know at home um you know co-parenting 24-7. So yeah I think it would have been a lot harder if he'd gone back after two weeks like they did back in the day.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:54

Yeah so so sorry just to recap here so you said two weeks back in the days but your husband was able to stay with you for pretty much 10 weeks but you said that it's because he was quite clever in how he used his um his time and planned things at work. What's it like?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:14

What's the average that if you know for the co-parent do you know what's the average time that they get to stay with baby um after birth uh I don't know about average but I know that um it yeah it used to be much more common for like the father or the second parent to have yeah only two weeks um and even probably about you know 10 years ago that was probably more of the norm. But now like more and more it to be honest, so it's a it's a depends on the employers usually um so more and more employers seem to be um providing parental leave for yeah for fathers as well um so yeah I know in our uh one of our classes that we were in a lot of the other dads were off for you know 10 12 14 16 weeks oh that's um but I think yeah I that's really really great um but again I think that was because they were working for employers who had those sort of conditions or not that it's um provided by the state.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:24

Yeah okay makes sense so it's it's kind of it can vary but the tendency is to have more time than less we'll see.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:35

It's trending in that direction yeah that's what it looks like well I really like this trend that's that's lovely yeah it's very nice yeah wild because the the child would need both parents right yeah I know and especially a parent that probably hasn't gone undergone uh surgery recently you'd think um cool so tell me what's life like did it uh compare to uh life with your cabbage patch baby well you know it's funny because um in the early weeks I guess it's such a different it's such a shift from what you're used to that it's like oh they're so radically different from you know not having a kid obviously um but now I have an older baby I'm like looking back at one of my other friends calls it the potato phase um and I think yeah it's it's true it's like a a totally different way of parenting and like totally different requirements um to what it's like yeah now with like a a a much yeah a a nine month old um but yeah there was a lot of it was the middle of winter for us so um our baby was you know wrapped in a lot of blankets and you know wendies and beanies whatever um and then yeah I watched a lot of the TV show Below Deck. Um so that was like my escapism and then just yeah um I was exclusive breastfeeding so yeah it was a lot you know as you can imagine just a lot of that but um yeah I I can really see why they call it the fourth um trimester because they really you know they can't do a lot in that in that phase and and they're just like okay uh time for rotating between like sleeping feeding or you know um playing all they don't really play but you know feed books so yeah I think now when I look back at that time I'm like oh that was kind of an easy time um even though I didn't think that at the time yeah well at the time you were probably trying to remember what your name was uh exactly exactly yeah oh no that's lovely I've I've loved that so I think probably my final question and it could be a bit of a tricky one so feel free to not answer it uh but my final question is do you think that there is anything that is particularly Australian that you've uh really enjoyed in your either pregnancy or first you know nine months with baby or something that you would recommend or other mums in your Australian experience? I mean I think that the probably the best things for me were yeah being in the midwifery group practice which was I guess an Australian um you know health system thing um so that was pretty great can recommend to any Australian listeners out there um and also just something that anyone you know could do um is going to that pelvic physio I just thought that was really helpful for me as well. I don't know if that's particularly you know auto due to Australia but yeah I thought those were probably the best um best things I did. And then I guess just like in in the early night leave days I would like often just go and walk my daughter around in the carrier um near the ocean, near the beach. We couldn't I didn't really realize at the time oh yeah I can't go in the water with her at that point. Because like yeah she this was when she was in the in the potato age. So yeah just thinking about those things where you're not used to um you know not being at your full normal capacity and you have this helpless infant with you but just still it was still nice being able to walk around um by the water.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:01

So just getting outside I guess that would be my favorite Australian experience of um the early days of having post uh post-birth having a little baby so again um I came up with two questions whilst we were talking um so my first question again I'm sorry I'm obsessed with seasons and weather apparently but how cold is winter in Australia sorry can we know where you are in Australia?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:32

Yeah sure sure I'm uh I'm in Sydney um so the the thing is this is if you if you like nerdy weather stuff so the issue is Australian houses are built as if the weather doesn't get cold um so we have no insulation but actually really does get cold so um my husband and I have actually set up a bunch of thermometers in our house um and it gets down to like 12 13 degrees like inside the house. Like it's quite yeah it's quite cold. Which is yeah it's just this weird thing where like culturally I think we're like oh we don't need you know it it doesn't get cold here but it so does um yeah so that is something we've set up and um sorry I've lost my train of thought oh yeah um that's why yeah our baby girl was wearing all of those layers in the house because yeah it's quite cold.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:32

And what kind of temperature do you get outside um during winter?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:37

Um outside will be like at night it might get down to like the low um you know like seven, eight something like that. That's like max max low. And then in the daytime it will be like you know teens to low twenties or that sounds a bit too high like probably in the teens yeah I think that's so interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:07

So that that's obviously widely different to my experience in the UK probably maybe other people in Western Europe because that well maybe no let's keep it to the UK that pretty much sounds like my spring but um it wouldn't be that cold um in the house.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:26

So I guess that's that's probably where the challenge is to keep baby warm in the house uh when the weather is um not freezing cold outside um but the heart the cooler yeah exactly so and you know they're always warning you um in the sort of education programs not to overheat them so you're like I've got to get exactly the right amount of layers but not too much and you know um different generations too they love adding on an extra scarf and and extra beanie so yeah um extra pair of socks just a bit of a yeah extra pair of socks so yeah just a bit of a battle to um to get them uh just right but yeah um we're we're coming up to our second winter now so we'll see how we go. Yeah oh yeah well we are finally here in the UK coming into springtime jealous I'm loving that so my other question was about uh pelvic physio you mentioned in your story that during your pregnancy you'll met with your physio did you still see your physio after the delivery uh did you have any sort of exercises to retrain your uh pelvic area yeah um they recommend you see your pelvic physio I think it's at um six weeks post birth um so uh that was yeah so I went and saw her again and she just sort of checked me out and yeah gave me you know the pelvic floor exercises and just asked me about you know how I was going with like oh what happens when you sneeze and you know all those types of things yeah so um and basically she was like look I can see that this is like it's paying off that you did this the training so doing the sort of pelvic exercises that she gave me pre-birth um she was like that really helps sort of limit the damage during the birth so yeah it just really made me grateful that I had done that um done that pre-training as well wow and what what what is that is that part of the um private healthcare or is that actually coming together with public health care no it was unlike a private physio so um yeah I because I didn't have um health insurance that included pregnancy because that's like in Australia that's like the top top tier health insurance that um you can get if you want to have your pregnancy stuff included. So I was just paying out of pocket for that but I only saw her a couple of times and it was more about like practicing what she told me you know you know like learning the piano or whatever like gotta do the exercises at home unfortunately so it's not just what you're doing you know when you're in the office um but yeah it's just maintaining that um discipline.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:40

Is that is that quite common in Australia to meet with a pelvic physio I don't think it's necessarily common but I had just had it another friend who had given birth recommend doing um so I that's where I got the idea from great one.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:58

Is there anything else that you'd like to share?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:02

Um no I think that was um yeah that was what what happened with yeah it was like um a long time ago even though it was only last year but I guess a lot's happened since then yeah I've just been raising a kid.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:20

Well you've been learning a lot you and baby girl yeah totally you're right thank you so much for taking me across the globe it was a l a little trip into Australia it was probably the quickest way to get to Australia so thank you so much Nina Yeah no problem or no worries I should say to be properly Australian fantastic thanks so much speak to you soon okay bye bye Nina thank you thank you for taking us into your world so generously for sharing not just the practical side of your experience but the emotional journey of it too pregnancy birth and those early days of motherhood are universal and yet the way we support women and families through them is anything but this conversation has stayed with me. Not because everything was perfect on the other side of the world because Nina was honest about that too but because there are things being done differently quietly and effectively that made me think about what we accept as normal here. The continuity of care the pelvic floor physiotherapy that is simply common knowledge believe that gives both parents the chance to actually be there at the beginning. We deserve to have this conversation we deserve to ask why and we deserve to expect more. If this episode is about something in you share it share it with your midwife your antenatal group your best friend who's pregnant right now because the more we talk about what is possible the harder it becomes to settle for less. And to every parent listening who navigated pregnancy birth in the early days without the support they needed I see you and I hope that this episode sounds like a small step towards the village that you deserve. As always thank you for listening for being part of the village and I'll see you in the next episode Raising with the Village will now be released every other Thursday giving me the space to keep bringing you thoughtful and honest conversations. You can find all past episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcast Amazon Music YouTube or wherever you usually listen and you can follow the show there's a new episode then straight into your feed. If you'd like to get in touch or share feedback or suggest a story you can find me on Instagram at raising with the village I always love hearing from you. And if this podcast has resonated with you one of the best ways to support it is by subscribing, rating, leaving a review or sharing an episode with someone who might need it. It truly makes a difference and helps the stories reach the people who need them most thank you for being part of this and after you next time