SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey village, well before we dive in, if you haven't already, hit follow on your favourite podcast platform. It takes two seconds, it costs nothing, and it means the world to me. Right, let's go! Hi, I'm Maiva, and this is Racing with the Village, a podcast where real parents share real stories so we can all feel a little more connected on this wild journey of raising children. Today's episode takes us somewhere a little different. We are not talking about pregnancy, and we're not talking about birth. We are talking about a form of love and a form of parenting that doesn't always get the spotlight that it deserves. Today I'm talking to Jillian, and Gillian is a foster carer. Jillian's journey into fostering begin, as so many beautiful things do, through her family. Her adult daughter was already a seasoned foster carer, and Jillian wanted to help. So she started as a respite carer by stepping in to support full-time carers when they needed a break. And then something shifted. She and her husband looked at each other and decided that they wanted to do more. They became full-time short-term foster carers. And five, nearly six years later, Jillian is here to tell us what life really looks like. Because here is the thing about fostering. We heard about it. We know it exists. We might even have thought about it at some point. But very few of us truly understand what it means to open your home, your heart, and your family to a child who needs somewhere safe to land. Sometimes at a moment's notice, sometimes for a few weeks, sometimes for longer. In this conversation, Jillian takes us through all of it. The practical side, how she became a foster carer, the training, the agencies, the assessments, and then the reality. The birthday celebrations, the holidays, the memories made with children who came into her life and left her footer prints there forever. But she is also honest about the harder parts. Because there are harder parts. And painting a true picture of fostering means talking about those two. What Jillian has given me today is something rare. A window into a world that most of us will never see from the inside. And a reminder that the village, this village that we talk about so often, can take so many forms. Here is Jillian. Hi, how are you? I'm good, thank you. Good, all right. Shall we start with some introductions?

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Who are you? I'm Jillian. Um, I have uh three children and eight grandchildren, and I've been fostering for five years.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

For five years? Ooh, very interesting. So that's going to be today's topic, today's conversation. But before we jump into fostering, could you please tell me a little bit more about you, your life before, um, just so that I can have an understanding about who you are. Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

I am I was married for the first time in 1973. I was 21 in March when I had my first child who was born in April 1976. There was a heat rave in the country, and then when he was born, there was snow around the country. But in 1976, it was a lovely long hot summer. My second child was a girl, and she was born in 1977. So I had two children in quite short time, 18 months between them. So it was quite hard work looking after two children. But I used to childmind as well. So I had I was childminding some children, um, so they had lots of playmates over the years. Well my So you always had lots of little ones around you. We always had lots of little ones around. Um when my my daughter was ten, I had my second daughter in 1988. Um and yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Um lovely family life.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Yes, a very busy family life. Yeah, I was gonna say. Life was a lot different in them days. Um most mothers used to uh obviously sta a lot of the mothers used to stay at home. Not many we didn't have the benefits that you have now where you know you get the they get tax allowances, don't they, for the children, child's allowances. Oh yeah. Yeah, so obviously they get that for working mothers, but you didn't really get that so much in the days when my children were very young. But um, yeah, so yeah, so I had uh three children and it was a very busy life.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Yeah, sounds like it. And so so you had three children, but you also had the children that you were fostering. Not sorry, not fostering, um child minding. Child minding. The children that you were child mining. So you've always been really surrounded by lots of young ones, so it's always been a very busy household.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

It has been a busy household, yes, yeah. So yeah, we had um I can't remember all the children, but the one I do remember, we had a little boy who was a very similar age to um to my kids, so they went to school at the same time. I had lots of friends, so we had lots of things going on. And um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

So um let's move forward a little bit and let's come a little bit closer to well, I guess five, six years ago. At this point, all your children are adult, they have their own lives. They have their own lives, yes. Were you still child minding at this point?

SPEAKER_00 6:39

No, no. My second husband was working as a bus driver and I was working in retail. Um uh my daughter, my eldest daughter, was a foster carer. So she had children, usually they were very young, they were usually babies up to about five, her children, they were never usually over five. So we became her backup carers. So we always used to help, look after, had them while they went away. If they couldn't go away with them, if we all went on family holidays, we used to generally, you know, help, you know, while they went and done something they wanted to do, because she had three children of her own and they were still fairly young at the time. My daughter's been fostering for over ten years now. So that's what we used to do. We used to help a lot. So we thought, you know what? There must be lots of foster carers out there that want to go away or have some time to themselves. Let's go become backup, let's become respite carers. So is that an official term? A backup carer? A backup carer is when you're a foster carer, you have backup carers. They are your number immediate family or friends that can help you if you have have to go out for the day, or if you want to go on holiday and you you can't take that child with you, you have to have obviously have to find someone to or the fostering service have to find someone to look after that child. And it's often backup carers that do that job. Right. But there is also a term for foster carers to find a respite carer. So if they want to go away and they haven't got any backup carers or no family that can, you know, no backup carers that can help them do that, then they have to go back to the fostering agency to find them a bac uh a respite carer. So that's why we became a respite carer.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

So yeah. So you were supporting both your daughter in her fostering and other families, other foster parents? Yes. Yeah. Once we were trained, we became respite carers, yes. Okay. Right. Oh, training. So can you please tell me a little bit more about training? Because I think now we've got an understanding as to how you got into fostering. So the training, how do you actually jump into it? What what do you have to do to qualify?

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Uh training is you have um you have a booklet um and you have to work to certain uh levels. Um, so you have to pass certain levels, but you also, before you get to that point, you have um interviews and interviews with they interview your family to find out about you. They interview you to find out about you, your home life, your past experiences, what you were like as a child, how you related to your parents, if there was any problems. I think nowadays it might be a bit more streamlined, but in our days it was quite intense. It can be quite intense to have that intrusion into your life, but it's always worth it. So um once we got through the interview stage and the uh vetin stage, we then had to do training. So we went to um get we went to uh training centre and we were having training, so scenarios about what would happen to children that we could have in our care, how we would deal with that situation, um, etc. So that's how it was done. Um we also had mentor, we had a mentor um that used to help us and help us to fill in our books. But once we were actually actually um approved as respite carers, COVID hit. So obviously no one was going away, so we were not really fostering or doing anything for obviously a couple of years.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

I had a question because you've said we a couple times that you as a more than just you uh personally, I'm assuming y with your husband you did the training. Is that mandatory that if it's something that you embark on, that you have to do it with your partner? Or could you do it as just one member of the family and maybe your partner is it just needs to be vetted as being, you know, a safe person that you live with? Uh or is that just the case that everyone in the family has to go through that training?

SPEAKER_00 11:16

I'm not sure that everybody has to go through that training. Uh I know I know my daughter and her partner both went through the training and both were vetted. Me and my husband were both vetted because we're both foster carers, but it's actually only myself that's the named foster care, if you like. Normally if it's normally me they email, or me that's on the uh payment side of it and everything and that side. Um, but I would believe that you both have to have a uh DBS, so you both have to make sure that you know that you're okay. Um I would think that there must be some sort of training because when we do our reviews every year, there's normally a certain amount of training you have to do per year, normally three trainings, uh, which are usually online, um, and sometimes in person. Um there's a male a male carers group that m my husband belongs to, and that's online, sometimes in person they meet. So there is a lot of training, but obviously if you foster that child is going to be in your household. So anyone in your household has to be over 18, has to be DBS'd and has to make sure that they are safe. The child's safe. That is the main priority. The child is safe in your household.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Yeah. And DBS'd um just to clarify is the um police um sort of flag, green flag to say that you're um and there's a lot of there's a lot of uh organizations that have you have to have DBS for.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

I'm a brownie guider, I've been a rainbow guider, I've been a brownie guide and a guide guider, and you have to have a DBS for guiding. Um yes, you have to have a DBS for fostering. I think you have to have DBS nowadays for child minding. Um there is quite a lot of organizational nursery nurses would have to be DBS'd. Anyone that works in a child in a children's environment would definitely have to be DBS'd.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Before we go back into our timeline, do you have a house visit before you start fostering so they can see what the house looks like, where you where you live, maybe bedrooms, um, slipping arrangement. Is that something that needs to be checked as well?

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Yes, you have a home visit. Um, normally around the same times as they have the interviews, you have a home visit from a fo from a social worker who will check everywhere for for the safety of that child that's going to be in your home. So the foster, any foster child would have to have their own bedroom unless they're a sibling pair where they can be in the same bedroom. Myself, I've got a nursery for obviously for babies, and any uh there could be a cot bed, so they could be up to five really in that bedroom. Um, I've also got a spare bedroom as well, which has two single beds in that can be for older children. Uh they always have to look at the house. There are certain requirements you need to have. You have to have a uh fire blanket for in case of a fire, you have to have a fire extinguisher, you obviously have to have safety gates. It's the normal things that you would do every day when you had children in your house. Um, but obviously my children were older, so there was a lot of things I had to keep up to date and make sure of. So, yeah, you have to make sure that you have a lockable medicine cabinet and the children can't get there. Um, obviously various things in the house that need to be safe.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Do you have to be a house owner or can you rent your property? Does it have any sort of impact as to whether you can be a foster parent?

SPEAKER_00 15:05

I don't know the exact answer to that question, but I would have thought that if you were in rented accommodation, you would probably have to okay that with your landlord. But I cannot see as long as you've got your their own bedroom, I cannot see any reason why you can't foster or be a foster carer. You definitely could be a backup carer for your own family. Um I can't see a reason why you couldn't, but it would have to be okayed with the landlord or the housing association, whoever you're with.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

And the last question, before we go back to the timeline, um, was around pets. I was wondering if you can have pets.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Yes. Um we haven't got any pets, but my daughter's got a dog. So yes, obviously when they ask you to have a child, they always obviously consider it that if it's an older child and they're frightened of a dog or something like that, then they wouldn't ask you. They would also be the veteran, you know, they would also be that child's consideration. Um but on the whole, uh saying my daughter's got chickens and a dog, and she's now got two cats. So yeah, that you can have tri you can have pets. There isn't any reason why you can't have pets. It would be the child coming into your home, there would be the consideration as to whether what animals you actually had in the house.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you very much for that. I was just wondering all those questions, very sort of practical questions. Yeah, right. They are. Now, going back into your timeline, so you said that you got vetted just in 2020, or 2019, and then bim, we all know what happened. Then COVID hit, um, and so nothing happens because no one's travelling, because at that point you were not a main fostering family. Uh you were a breastback carer. Yeah. Um, so what happened at this point?

SPEAKER_00 16:55

At this point, um, we weren't having anybody in our care. We did a babysitting um job where we went to their house. Um, two boys, they were non-verbal really, they spoke in their own little language. Um, so we went to their house. The lady needed to do some training. Obviously, she couldn't with two young children around the house. You can't concentrate on doing online training if you've got children running around. So she um she asked for some help and we went over, or I went over to help. Um, they were lived in the countryside, so I put on my boots and they put on their boots and we went for long walks in the countryside. Um, and then I helped um read to them, or we sang nursery rhymes together. They had their own little language, but they did know a little a few words, um, so they could join in, but they just liked listening and playing. We just sat on the floor and played with their toys and whatever they needed. So that was the first um incident. We brought them over to my house at one point, um, and we took them out to the park with my husband, and that lasted for about two or three weeks, um, just a few times to over the week over the weeks. When that had finished, obviously it was still COVID, so there wasn't really many people going away, or so we weren't really needy for that reason. So we went onto what they call the emergency list. So when a child comes into care, they contact people that have on emergency list that might be able to take a child in their household. So we got contacted to take two girls, so that was our first experience. We had two girls we got contacted, but they were in the police station at the time, and they came to our house about eight o'clock one Friday night, I believe. So these two girls, they were six and eight, and they came with very sadly two carrier bags of belongings, um, very little. So the next day we had to go shopping. We bought some pajamas and underwear and clothes to wear, and we did get an emergency allowance for that per child to help cover that. Because obviously they didn't come with very little. Uh, the six-year-old, unbeknown to me, was in a pull-up and didn't know that at the time, so she'd been wearing that for quite some time. So she was quite sore, so we had that to deal with. Um, we obviously they came into a house because that was quite traumatic for them, so we had to obviously settle them. They slept in the same room. They had a single bed each in the same room, so they were comforting each other, even though they did have sibling rival rivalry at times.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

What what does it look like when you get a call? First of all, who do you get the call from? From the agency?

SPEAKER_00 19:53

From I I work for the council. I'm I'm a council carer. I'm not an agency carer. I'm a council carer. So every local authority would have their own council foster carers. Um they're not always in that they can be they can be all over the country. The babysitting job that I did was quite some way away. Um they are they are in different areas. Sometimes they come to you from different areas, but on the heart, this the one came from this was local, the two girls were local. So um, okay, so you received the call from the We received the call from Usu Duty. Uh social work. They usually use a duty social worker on call during the day and overnight. Sometimes children can even be in the office, which is quite distressing for them, obviously, just to be left in the office. Um these two were actually found in uh in in the care of someone that had been drinking. Um so they were taken by the police into the police station. So then Juty called and we were asked to take the two girls in in emergency, which lasted 18 months. That's a long emergency.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

So but before we go maybe a bit more into this story, so that was an emergency. How quickly do you have to react? Because I would assume here that if they are at the police station, you've got to be there within what is that, a matter of hours?

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Yeah. If you're in emergency care, you have to say yes, I can take them or no, I can't. You're not put under pressure sometimes. You're not put under pressure, you can you can say no if you can't. We've had calls, we've said no, we can't take these children, we can't take this child. So yeah, you're not under pressure. It's up to you to decide if you can do this job, if you can do this child, can you take this child? Um, usually emergencies you do have to have a quick answer, obviously, because they are in the police, they are in the police station or they are in the office. Sometimes They know a child's going to come into care, so you get a lot more time because they have to go to court sometime to get the court order to bring that child into care. So there you do get a lot more time, and you also get to know a little bit more about the child before they come into your care.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Yeah, I was gonna ask. So okay, so we've got essentially two situations. The one situation that is the more um sort of normal process. Um there is a court order, and in that case you've got a bit more time. You receive a file with information about the child. Do you receive information about their background? You do get a profile.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

It's not a lot, it's you do get a profile which tells them about a little bit about their life story. Um so you do get to know if they've got additional needs, if they are suitable to your household, because not every child is suitable to your household. Uh we've had different scenarios as we've gone on. In our now that we are older, we're now both retired, we have decided that we are only going to take the underfives because we we feel that we cannot, we can't, we can offer the under-fives more than the older fives. You know, I've been teenage years, I've been there, done that, don't really want to go back to that again. So, yeah, so you do get you get more time before they go to call, you know, and also a social worker will know you, so they might know, well, yes, actually, I think this is a good match for this person. So it's a good idea to have a good relationship with your social worker who will then know um your ideal child that you want in your household.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Okay. And then on the other side we've got um the emergency situation, just like the one you described. In this case, where it's like you've said, it's a matter of, you know, the the decor you've you've got to make the decision very quickly and then you've got to act very quickly to go and collect the uh child or children. How much information do you receive in this type of situation?

SPEAKER_00 24:00

With the two girls, we didn't really get any information. We were just told that a bare net minimum that this child were in care, they were at the police station, and they need they needed emergency care. That's all we were really told. We weren't told very much at all. We had to find out for ourselves most of it. Um I'm not sure that's the case for all emergency cares, but in this case it was. And also, bearing in mind it was COVID time still, so obviously there wasn't a lot of going on. Um so we were we hadn't had any children in our care, so we decided that we were able to do this, so we brought the children to our to our home. I think I'd retired by then as well. My husband was still working, but I'd actually retired, I've just remembered. So yeah. And yeah, so they came into a house and they stayed with us for 18 months.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

So during that time when they stayed with you, did you welcome any other children into your home or did you keep it that way because that's yeah, that was the most comfortable you could be with the situation?

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Yeah, we only had two girls. Um if we were helping my daughter out with any foster children she had, then that child, because they would have been under five, would have been able to go in the nursery so they could go. So we might have had a child stay with us for my daughters, uh, as a backup, not as a not as fostering. So yeah, we only um had these two. And I think we had to go back to panel to uh because as a panel situation, you had to be approved as a foster as a foster carer or a respite carer. So we had to go back to panel to be approved for foster carers. So we were actually changed from respite to foster carers to have these two children. They were school age, so they went to school. Well, we have to take them to school in the morning. These children, we told them our names, so we said to them, it's up to you um whether you call us by our names or whether you would like to call us nanny and grandad. And at first, because obviously all our my family, all my grandchildren called us nanny and grandad because they were young at the time. So we thought it might be easier for them. They did call us Gillian and Trevor for some time, um, but it quickly changed. As soon as the grandchildren were around and they were around calling us nanny and granddad, it changed to nanny and grandad. Also, when we went to school, they could say, Oh, this is nanny and grandad. They didn't have to say, Oh, this is my foster carers, so it made it easy for them. It was very low-key at school that you know that this wasn't branded around that these children were in care.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

School, how does that work? Do you have to sign them up to your local school or do the children stay in their old school if they are, you know, local enough? Because you said that you're under the um the council, so I would assume that it can't be that far. Yeah. Um, but what's the situation with school?

SPEAKER_00 27:01

The two girls that we had, they were they stayed in their own school. Um we had another child, he stayed in his home school. So you could change, and some people do change schools, but to be honest, to be fair, on the child, it's probably best if they're already coming into an unknown situation that they've already got, you know, a a family that they've got to get used to. Um, they've got all these new things going on in their life. To have one constant of their own school and their own friends and their own teachers and someone they can talk to outside of the our family environment is probably good for them. So we always felt never to change their schools. It was never far away. I I've retired, so I always drive them to school in the morning and pick them up. School were very good. There was always after school, child after school clubs they could go to if I couldn't pick up for some reason, if I had other things to do, because I had other children to back up, uh pick up from school sometimes. So, in when my daughter other daughter was away working, I had to pick up one of my grandchildren. So if we couldn't do that for any reason, they went into after school care.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Okay, fantastic, and that's really good. And actually that makes me think, but what is your network, or to reference the title of the podcast, what's your village here in this case? Um, what kind of support do you receive from the council, if any?

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Yeah, so with the council, you obviously get a social worker. So the child or children have their own social workers, so they have a child social worker. They have what is called as a court guardian, which is someone that looks after if they're in court order, they have a court guardian, which helps them a lot to understand the court process and what's going through, um, how it works with their people going to court for on their behalf. Um, they also have um an independent reviewing officer, called an R I R I R O. So they are the person that they can see that will help them as well and to look after. So for us, we have our own social worker, our own social worker is our first call. When you're a new foster carer, you have a mentor. So you have a mentor for about six months who helps you to go through. My carers, I had uh my daughter who was a foster carer, was a backup carer, and I had my other daughter who was um on maternity leave quite a lot at the time, so she was a backup carer as well. Um so because my grandchildren were my grandchildren were young, her grand her children, only one at the time, was young.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

You have is support that is being provided on one side by the system, the council, the court, and then on the other side you also have your sort of own support coming from your family, your close relatives. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

And friends. You don't they don't have to be backup carers. You can have friends that you know you can talk to about various things. Um in my case, obviously I was a brownie leader, so I'd had quite a lot of experience with children at that age. I've been a rainbow leader, which was five to seven their years of age. Um, brownies are seven to ten. So I had a lot of experience of that sort of age age children, so I knew sort of roughly what to expect um or to help, you know, and to and to get them into clubs and things and um to interact with their own children and to take them, you know, to keep them in the in the situation they are. I also you have um they have family time, so that is one thing you have to be able to take them to their family time, so they still do see their um their mother or their father or their siblings. So that has to be because some siblings are in different f foster care or maybe with a different parent. So they have to have care they have to have time with maybe stepchildren or uh and that scenario. So yeah, so they do get outside my the two girls that we had were very close to one of my grandchildren, she was the same similar age, so they used to go to gymnastics together, they used to go to we used to have family outings um in the summer holidays and in the school holidays. Um obviously when they were in school, they had their own school friends to have, um, and they used to have support in school as well.

SPEAKER_01 31:32

That leads me to um another question, events, I can call it maybe. And by events, I'm thinking I'm thinking about actually probably two types. The first type of events is things like holidays, because you've mentioned earlier that being a respite carer uh could be when the main fostering family goes on holiday. So I was wondering what's the status with holiday, and then after that I wanted to look into more things like birthdays, um, Christmases, um celebrations, things like that. So maybe holidays first.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

Um how does that work? So, right, so let me just go a little bit back and say that we had the two girls, but we also had um after the girls went, we had a boy. Um, he was seven when he came and eight when he left. And then our last foster care fostering was a baby of uh one week old to three months. So, as apart from holidays, so the girls we had to ask for them to apply for a passport because obviously holidays in this country we often went for family, so we had family holidays and we took them with us. They never went to respite, they always had funny holidays with us. With my daughter, we went away to centre parks and places like that. We did get a passport for them, and I my husband couldn't come because he was working, took them with my daughter to Rhodes. We went on a family holiday to Rhodes. Hopefully. So they came with us. We had a villa and they played and swam and learned how to swim and had a had a such lovely memories. A memory for them. Um with the the boy that I had, the the time before, we had holidays there. We didn't go abroad, we had um holiday centre parks. With him, he was very close to my eldest grandson. They were very similar ages, so obviously he came with us. Um they were allowed to stay in the same bedroom while we were away. They were similar age, they were both boys, so they were both in the same bedroom while they were away. And occasionally, when uh my grandson stayed overnight, they stayed in the same bedroom. They were close. So um we did go away. We had a holiday booked, had to have respite, so we had to find a respite carer. Um he had lots of problems. He used to um build dens and hide under um blankets, uh, made himself little dens. He was always very scared about things, things that happened. He was very traumatized, he'd had a lot of trauma in his life. He also, we believe, we thought possibly autism, but we think they think now it was just trauma related. He did have a lot of problems, but we maybe we'll go into that sort of side of it later. Um, but yes, we took him away, but not on not he didn't have a passport, so he could never come with us to abroad. And the last one we had, we'd never go, we didn't have any holidays with him. He was a baby, and we didn't at this time it was it was January to just gone to Mar uh April, so we never really did any holidays or family holidays during that time, so he didn't come with us. Um birthdays, um, with the council, you get we obviously get paid to have children, um, a normal payment per week, but on birthdays you get a special payment for them to be able to buy them a present or have a party or or do whatever. The girls both had parties, one had a a trampoline party, and one had a soft play place sort of party. They both had lots of presents. So, and at Christmas the same, you had an allowance for Christmas, so you could spend them obviously the money that you got on buying them presents for Christmas so they had time. Memories for them, they you have to do what's called a lifestyle um a life story work. Um my life story work for the girls in and the and for bo for the boy that I had included every photo, or not every photo, but lots of photos were taken during the time that they in our care. We um got a uh folder and I printed the uh photos out and they were made into a folder. So they had a life story with um a heading, so all the holidays that we went to, they had all the pictures from that holiday, so they could look back on their life in time that they always knew this was what happened at that particular time. That's lovely.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

Do you want to go into the more difficult aspect of fostering? You you hinted on that um just a minute ago. Yes, the challenges.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

With the girls, obviously one of the challenges was the obviously health care was we had to um make sure they they could they could shower themselves, they could wash their own hair, they could look after themselves. Um they had to have school schoolwork, they were very behind, so we tried to bring them up with their schoolwork, sat overnight, uh sat during the evenings doing a little bit of homework, helping them read, helping that. But the two girls weren't too challenging. They were fairly good, they were quite easy to look after. Um with the last, with the boy that we had, as I said, he had um we thought autism, but it wasn't. I believe he's been assessed now, and it was trauma related. We did have quite a lot of trauma um related incidents. He went to school and he would run out of the classroom and run out. Not he couldn't get out of school, but he'd run round the playground, he'd do things uh at school that were inappropriate. Um, so we were eventually with his running, we were told he couldn't come to school for the time. I had to get my daughter sometimes because he would be under a table, he would refuse to come out of school. We I'd have to get my daughter to come and help me. She had a lot more experience in that area than I did. So she would come and get him out of school, bring him to the car, calm him down, bring him home. We would then he would then go make himself a den, calm down. I sort himself out. But with that, the school then said, right, well, he can only come for the morning, so we used to have to only take him for three hours in the morning to school. So our life changed slightly then, because obviously as a couple you can't really go anywhere when you've only got three hours in the day in the morning. Um, you obviously haven't got the complete school day. He used to go to a um animal place that had animals, so he'd help muck out the animals, clean them, uh, learn how to look after them. So it was therapy for him. That was in the afternoon three times a week. So we did have some respite from that as such, but um I did have very good backup carers, so we could get out and about if we needed to. So you do have to, if you have in that situation, a good backup car is is a great help to you. Um he also one day bit me, threw stones at me. Um he obviously he used to go into a rage, which probably he didn't realise what he was doing at the time, because when he was not in them rages, he was the sweetest boy you could ever have. Um but he did used to go into some rages, which probably happened from the trauma that he'd seen over the years. He had family time once and he ran around, he ripped the books up in the contact centre, um, and then he got he we were we almost gave up on him because it was quite hard work at that time, but we were close to the end on him going, so we did continue and we kept up with him, and he is now with his grandmother. Um I have seen him recently uh with my grandson because they were friends, we went and had a visit in the park, and he has seemed to be settled a bit more now. So hopefully his life will improve over the years.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

How much contact do you keep with um those children after the leave?

SPEAKER_00 40:27

It depends on where the child goes. If a child goes into long-term, we were never long-term foster carers, so if a child goes into long-term foster carer, our first girls got split, they didn't go together. One went to um SGO, which is special guardianship, um, and she's looked after by the and sh they didn't want she didn't want any contact afterwards, so we don't see her at all. I send birthday cards, I'll send a Christmas card. Um, but now I stopped because it's I there was no comeback from there, so we we never got any feedback back after a while, so we stopped that now. Um the other girl, um, her sister, went with her younger sister, who was with her dad, but her dad gave up, he couldn't look after her, so she's both of the both of the girls now, the uh one of our and the younger sister have gone into long-term foster care. And for a long time we haven't seen them. We did have one visit, um, we haven't had any visits since, but they are now local, so they came, so she came back to the brandy group, so I saw her then. Um, and she is local. I have seen her occasionally. We're hoping to have a family visit, but social workers have to approve it, and sometimes it takes a bit of a long time to do that. Um with the boy, he went to his grandmother, so his grandmother has special guardianship, so it's up to her whether or not we see, and I usually could contact her, and if she wants to see us, then she will just message back and say, let's meet at this particular time. So that's what we'll do. Um with the baby, we'll go on a bit more about the baby later. He's our last one. Um, but yeah, we're showers ones, some we've kept in touch with others or one of her ones went to Ghana, didn't even come into this country, so she's gone from this country to Ghana. Uh, so that is usually WhatsApp, little videos, send pictures, things like that. So, yeah, I think I think you can keep in touch. She was first one, he was a baby when he was when he came into care, and he's with his grandmother, and he he came the other day with his grandmother and stayed with my daughter, um, while she went to see her son, which is his dad, which is a sad story, but um yeah, but he couldn't have him, so um, so he she went to see his dad, so that child was calm and he's now 13. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

So you've mentioned that we could go a little bit more into the story of that uh last little baby that you had. So did you mention earlier you had this baby when he was a week old?

SPEAKER_00 43:24

Yes. So with the baby, um, when we'd when the boy went, we had a very long break because he was quite hard work. So we decided we were gonna have a long break, we would have some nice holidays and travel a bit, and then we decided then we wouldn't have any older children anymore, we would only have up to five years old, we wouldn't do any more. So we decided we would like to have a baby because we'd never had a baby before. So we were on the list. Um nowadays they try to match family match you. So there was a social worker that knew we wanted to have a baby. Um, and she did match us with a baby, but unfortunately, at the time we had a holiday book, and the baby wasn't born but came early, so we couldn't have that baby, so that baby went somewhere else. So we were still on the search for a baby, and we then got offered two babies, so we had to choose between these two babies, but we went for the baby that had just come into care. They didn't know anything about this baby. The mother had been found on the street and had been an ambulance called, she went into hospital and had no antenatal care at all, and had um had the baby within two days, and she had wanted the baby to be adopted. So obviously, she left the baby in hospital, so her family had to be found. So we were contacted, we had the profile with the baby, and we knew exactly that yes, we wanted to love this baby. He was he was a da he was going to be adorable. So, yes, we knew that we could give him the time and the effort, and that's what we wanted to do. So we had um a phone call from the child social worker, and it was arranged that we would meet at the hospital to go and pick him up. So we went uh to I went to the hospital and picked him up with the car seat, and me and the child social worker and the baby all came back to our house. Um, and we had a uh the child's child's child social worker stayed for a while and she settled him in, although he was the baby, so wasn't really much settling needs to be done. Had to look round, made sure he was going to be safe and all his needs were gonna be met. Unfortunately, when he came, the hospital had to give me some milk because the milk he was on with the recalls, we couldn't get this milk anywhere. So we had to change his milk. Um went on to Cowangate, so that was fine, he was fine. Um we had a bassinet in our room because I had to do training. You have to do so many trainings, I said, and we did safe asleep training, and one of the things is that you have to have you are supposed to have a child in your your room up to their six months old. So we managed to get a bassinet for him. We had him in a Moses basket at first, and then we picked up, we managed to managed to pick up a bassinet, which we kept in her room. It isn't next to me, but I'm at a certain age that I have to get up at night, so we only had him across from us. Um but with the baby, obviously, you have the various things, we had the sleepless nights, you have to get up and feed them. Obviously, it was two of us, so we used to take it in turns. So, yeah, we did all the normal things that a a one-week to three months-old baby does. They just have their milk, they sleep, or they don't sleep, or they cry. And um, yeah, so you feed them and change their nappies and then just love them. Um so yeah, he was he was a pleasure to look after. He has now transitioned. When a child leaves your care, you have what's called the transition period. With the baby, it was quite a short transition period. Uh normally it's about a month, but this was only over two weeks, mainly because the child's social worker was leaving, so they decided they wanted to get it all done within this period of time. So it was quite a hectic schedule with the because he was going to be adopted, they have what you call now EP carriers, which is early permancy carer. So they're a foster carer to adopt. So while the process, so the child will go into the foster care, at least cut the couple or whoever for fostering before they're adopting. So it gets some use of that, especially for a baby, because then it could take up to a year, so they don't get too much attachment issues. So obviously, with the baby, three months they've not got too many attachments, but obviously, when they're one year old, they can be quite attached to you and everything you're around you and your surroundings, so it's quite sometimes quite traumatic for them to go. So that's why I think they've created these um early permanency foster carers, which is good. Um the baby went to two dads, um, are very um very nice two um two uh dads that are going to be looking after him. One is Japanese and one is Chinese, and the baby was Vietnam, so he was a nation baby, so the culture match is a very good match for him. And we had them to our house for quite some time, and then he's left now, and we still see him. We saw him after a week of him going, and then we saw him again a week later. Um, now we have left now for a while. We're gonna not probably hopefully see them in the summer, in the summer holidays. So we had a letter from this couple that had the baby, and it says, Dear Chillian and Trevor, we want to say a huge thank you to both of you for caring for baby M for the last three months, but also all the help and advice you've given us during this transition. This cannot be taken for granted, so we are extremely grateful that it was you two caring for him at this time. He has been so clear that has settled. It has been so clear that he has now that he has settled and he has been at your place and is down to your expert skills. I don't know about that, but hey. Thanks for bringing him the most amazing start in the of the full of cuddles, care, his girlfriends, I'll take about that back in a minute, and all the wonderful activities in the community and that church that he's been going to. I'm sure that he'll miss you and we'll take the next step in his journey, and you'll always be a cherished part of his life story. And that was lots of love from J and K. So that was really nice. So that is really nice, rewarding part of the of the journey. Sometimes transitions aren't always that easy, sometimes they can be. Going back onto what they said about his girlfriend. So when I went to pick the baby up from hospital, there was another child in another baby in the same hospital that was in, was one week older. And I did say at the beginning that I had a choice of two babies, and one of these babies was in the same ward. One that I didn't take was in the same ward. This child went to agency foster carer. Um, and I think I don't know quite what happened. We believed that she couldn't cope and she passed, they passed them on to another fair, another foster carer, but the agency didn't tell the council. So when they turned up for family time, there was a complete different foster carer, and the council decided no, they won't have that. So my daughter was contacted. So this girl, baby girl, was transferred to my daughter. So the two of them, because I did do backup career for this other baby as well. So I had both babies uh for a week in my house. So this was what his little girlfriend was.

SPEAKER_01 51:30

So I guess it was meant to be you were meant to know them both.

SPEAKER_00 51:34

Yes, we were meant to know them both. Baby boy and baby girl. Yeah, she uh the plan for this baby at the moment uh with my daughter is to go to her grandmother. So yeah, we have um you have contact sometimes in the community. Um for the baby I had, we had contact in the community. Um, the mum I met three times, um, she was quite a sad story. As I say, she was Vietnamese, she was trafficked over here, so it was quite sad. Um he was born, it wasn't consensual, so he was born in that respect. Um so that was probably why one of the reasons why she's put him for adoption. Um I don't know what goes what's gone through her mind, but it's must be quite dramatic for her. So I did as much as I could for her. I made her a book of his life story with pictures. Um and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:28

So here obviously you're saying that you I think it's quite beautiful actually that you have the connection both with the birth mother and with the adoptive parent. So you've got the connection on both sides. Is that common? Was that the case as well with um the three other children that you fostered?

SPEAKER_00 52:50

With the first girls, uh, they weren't court-ordered. So mum had parental responsibility. So everything that we did, we had to go through her. Some things you when you do a placement meeting, because you have a placement meeting when the child's placed to you, which gives you a placement idea of what their story is and what they're what the what's gonna happen for their, you know, going forward. Um, and then you are uh trust the train of thought. So you oh yeah, so with the two girls, we had contact in the community. So I would go and after school and meet mum in a park. The children would play, she would see them in the park, um, and that would that was how the two girls were managed. Sometimes we were first times we were social worker, after that it was just me. I I I got on a right with mum, there wasn't a problem. She wasn't the danger, it was the fact that she was working and leaving her, leaving the children with her mother who who wasn't looking after them properly. As I say, she was drinking, so so that's why that went. With the boy, he had family time with his mother and his father, but they weren't together. There was um domestic violence there, I believe, so they were having time, so we had family time with mum, and then we had a half an hour break because they couldn't follow on, so we had to either come home or go to the park or find somewhere to sit or go somewhere, um, and then come back for family time with dad. He also had family time with his nan, but that was usually w with the mum, because it was her mother. And that was in a contact centre. There was often lots of contact centres around the country. Obviously, this was local to me. For me, it was about a 10-minute drive, so it wasn't far away. So they usually are quite, they usually do try and find where local for you. We did a respite once where I had to take the child that I was respite carrying into a different contact centre. That was about an hour's drive. So, but um, that was not the normal contact with the family. That was um his sibling who was in a different part of the country. So sometimes you're expected to go a little bit further afield. With the baby, um, as I say, we saw mum three times, and that was in the council offices. The child social worker arranged a room so she would um she or she could feed him. Um, she changed him, she just had some time with him. We had to have an interpreter because she didn't speak any English. So we found a little bit about her life story, and that was the only contact that she had. Going forward, she can have contact with the baby and the his pre uh future adoptive parents, and it was still up to her, she could still apply to have him back, um which could happen, but is probably quite can be quite rare because she hasn't really told them an address where she's living or if she's safe. So that as that again is not a court order, that is just the fact that they were notified by the hospital that this woman coming in, given birth, and wanted to have him adopted. So there's no court order on baby either. So that's um again, mum has parental work at the moment, so until it goes to um obviously to the agencies and all involved that need to approve his adoption.

SPEAKER_01 56:37

Do you feel like there is anything that we've left out from this conversation that should be mentioned for anyone who would consider fostering?

SPEAKER_00 56:52

Um for fostering you have to look after your own lifestyle. Uh you have to look at your lifestyle and how you would look after a child, how many children you've got in your house. Um you use your own you can use your own approved as well, sometimes for um if you've obviously got young children, sometimes they can not approve you for a baby because you obviously couldn't have too many. You obviously there's a ratio of how many you can have. Um my daughter, I think, was first approved for up to ten. She could have older children now because her children are older. Um in our s in our situation, we were approved for up to ten because we kept it the way that way because of our own grandchildren. We wanted to make sure that that dynamic didn't stop. You know, we didn't want any older than our own grandchildren, and because we didn't want them to feel that they were pushed out or they could be harmed in any way. So you have to really think about your own circumstances, what you feel you can cope with, how you feel about having a teenager in your life. There's often usually usually babies, they can be up to five, or they can be older school children age. Perhaps if you're working, a school-aged child will be better for you because you're still working, although children are can be in nurseries, so you could have a a three, four-year-old that would be in a in a nursery environment, even a baby you could have in a nursery environment. Um, so you have to look at your own lifestyle, what you particularly feel you can realistically look after, because you don't really want that placement to break down. That is usually the worst thing you really want for you and the child, really. It's probably best. But if you do feel that you had a placement and it really isn't for you, then obviously it is best to say to the child social worker or to your social worker, this isn't working for me, you need to find another another uh foster carer to uh have this child, and that does happen. Um, you we normally get emails. Um, I had a phone call to have a five-month-old baby the other day, but we are having a break at the moment. We've only just um uh stopped having the baby, so we're having a break probably until about uh another month. Um you normally get asked, you normally get emails um of of children that they are looking for foster carers for. There was one the other day for a boy, I think he was about five, but he had he had needs that I knew that I didn't I didn't want, not not want to, didn't feel that I was capable of being of uh retirement age, I'm obviously older, you know. I have to be realistic of what I can do and what I can't do, and this particular child I couldn't have cared for. So, you know, you do get emails and you do get to decide um whether or not you think this child will be suitable for you.

SPEAKER_01 59:54

Yeah, no, absolutely fair. So it's very much about being very honest with yourself and knowing yourself, I guess, because you don't want to be here to you you really want to be here to be the strongest, most positive transition for this ch children that they can have. Is there anything else that you want to add before we we end this conversation?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

I don't think so. I think that's covered most things. As I said, I think if you do decide to become a foster carer, it is a very rewarding job. Um, it's not paid exceptionally well. When you look at the hourly rate, you don't really get too much. You don't do it for the money, put it that way. Um, but it is rewarding, you do get a lot out of it. Sometimes the child you can be a short-term carer or a long-term carer. If you're a long-term carer, then you have to have that child in your placement till they're 18. And sometimes even longer, they have um what they call stay-in-put. So you can have a stay-in-put child. I know a foster carer that has had a child in their care up till they're 18 and still kept them and still got that child. I'm not sure she adopted her or whether she just has her in her life because she's kept her for so long. So yeah. A child as well, when you get paid. Uh when I first started, um, you used to have to put so much aside for them um into a bank, but now it is deduct it is taken at source. So a child gets so much money put aside for them when they're taken into care, and then that child then gets that money when they're 18 to help start their life. Um, because obviously when they're 18, that foster carer might not, you know, be able to take them anymore, might decide, you know, this is it, they've got to make their own way in life. You know, they're even your own children you wouldn't have sometimes, you know. I mean, my children left home when they're in their sort of twenties and thirties, so yes, so you know, they this is a start for them to make their way in life or to put a deposit down or to be able to rent a flat or sort, you know, to help them in life. So depending on how long they wouldn't care, how much that money would be.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:14

I didn't know about that. Didn't know at all. No. Um but I'm glad to hear. Well, Jillian, th thank you so much for um sharing your story. I was extremely looking forward to speaking to you. It's a topic that I didn't know much about at all. Uh I knew about the word fostering, I did not know about the world of fostering. So thank you so much for sharing all that about all that, and I'll speak to you very soon. Thank you very much. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. Bye. Bye bye. Jillian, thank you. Thank you for opening up this world to us with such honesty and such warmth. For showing us the birthday celebrations and the holiday memories, and for not shying away from the harder parts either. That balance, that truthfulness is what makes the disconversation so valuable. What strikes me most about Jillian's story is the quiet enormity of what she and her husband do. Every child who has come through their door has arrived at the door carrying something. And Jillian and her husband have met every single one of them with open arms, a safe space and a family they want to belong to. Even if just for a while. That is not a small thing, but that is everything. If this episode has sparked something in you, a curiosity, a question, perhaps even a thought that you have never quite allowed yourself to finish, I would encourage you that you follow that thread. Fostering needs more people like Jillian. And they are children out there who need more families like hers. Links to find out more about fostering are in the show notes. The children who have passed through your home are luckier than they will ever know. As always, thank you for listening and thank you for being part of this village. And I'll see you in the next episode. Bye-bye. Raising with the village will now be released every other Thursday, giving me the space to keep bringing you thoughtful and honest conversations. You can find all past episodes on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, YouTube, or wherever you usually listen. And you can follow the show there, watch some new episodes, then straight up into your feed. If you'd like to get in touch, share feedback or suggest a story. You can find me on Instagram at Raising with the Village. I always love hearing from you. And if this podcast has resonated with you, one of the best ways to support it is by subscribing, rating, leaving a review, or sharing an episode with someone who might need it. It truly makes a difference and helps these stories reach the people who need them most. Thank you for being part of the village, and I'll see you next time. Bye bye, I'm not sure what I'm trying to do.